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In the name of Fun
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Bit of a waffle from me but I need to tell the whole story so you get the picture . :lol:

As some of you know I changed my water pump form the mechanical one driven by the small gears off the supercharger to a Davies Craig EWP80 and was happy at first

Now at Cadwell Park in July 2010 I had an issue of cooling and the pump seemed to be getting air in it - My suspicions went to head gasket and with the engine failure at Snetterton after extreme temperature issues I was 'ok' with that suspicion .

However on taking the engine to pieces I discovered bits of my chain guide blocking the oil pickup which made me wonder what had really happened to my engine at Snetterton :glare:. That was where I left it until yesterday

I was at Selby with the shell builder and I mentioned that We'll need a mounting point for the Electric water pump and he said - ' oh hang on , my mate has just had real issues with his - let me have a chat with him ' .
So I started worrying .

On the way back home I had time to pop to the engine builder - Ric Wood - and he asked what pump i was using :lol: ('' I was going to ask you'' says I ! ) .

''Ditch the electric pump as we have seen more engine failures with them than without '' he said .
''Only last week on the engine dyno we had a customers car on - with Electric pump- and at 7000rpm you could physically see the hoses collapse and when off throttle blow up again causing hot spikes ''

He explained that water pressure in the block needs to be about 25psi and that is what mechanical pumps give you where as Electrical ones can go as low as 6psi causing steam pockets in the head :w00t:

So with that in mind Floof and I are looking to change to a Cooper pump with a pulley suitable to provide sufficient flow without over spinning ( new pulley )

What are peoples thoughts on water pumps ??

Adam et al - if you are out there looking in - How would I know what the Cooper pump will flow and if it'll be enough for us ?
 

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Bit of a waffle from me but I need to tell the whole story so you get the picture . :lol:

As some of you know I changed my water pump form the mechanical one driven by the small gears off the supercharger to a Davies Craig EWP80 and was happy at first

Now at Cadwell Park in July 2010 I had an issue of cooling and the pump seemed to be getting air in it - My suspicions went to head gasket and with the engine failure at Snetterton after extreme temperature issues I was 'ok' with that suspicion .

However on taking the engine to pieces I discovered bits of my chain guide blocking the oil pickup which made me wonder what had really happened to my engine at Snetterton :glare:. That was where I left it until yesterday

I was at Selby with the shell builder and I mentioned that We'll need a mounting point for the Electric water pump and he said - ' oh hang on , my mate has just had real issues with his - let me have a chat with him ' .
So I started worrying .

On the way back home I had time to pop to the engine builder - Ric Wood - and he asked what pump i was using :lol: ('' I was going to ask you'' says I ! ) .

''Ditch the electric pump as we have seen more engine failures with them than without '' he said .
''Only last week on the engine dyno we had a customers car on - with Electric pump- and at 7000rpm you could physically see the hoses collapse and when off throttle blow up again causing hot spikes ''

He explained that water pressure in the block needs to be about 25psi and that is what mechanical pumps give you where as Electrical ones can go as low as 6psi causing steam pockets in the head :w00t:

So with that in mind Floof and I are looking to change to a Cooper pump with a pulley suitable to provide sufficient flow without over spinning ( new pulley )

What are peoples thoughts on water pumps ??

Adam et al - if you are out there looking in - How would I know what the Cooper pump will flow and if it'll be enough for us ?
We have a Cooper pump on our car for the exact reasons you have stated, electric pumps are not a safe enough option. Will be interesting to know the data on a Cooper water pump though. Nice one Nige!:thumbup1:
 

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In the name of Fun
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Discussion Starter #3
Not sure how I find the data out as I'm not very clever :laugh:

It means we need to change the pulley layout a bit and choose another tensioning method but that's life :crying:
 

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Not sure how I find the data out as I'm not very clever :laugh:

It means we need to change the pulley layout a bit and choose another tensioning method but that's life :crying:
Thats also why we converted ours to a manual tensioner set up using standard cambelt kit pulleys to run the belt.
 

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A work collegue that does sprinting said exactly the same thing Nige so id go with a mechanical pump myself
 

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In the name of Fun
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Discussion Starter #7
A work collegue that does sprinting said exactly the same thing Nige so id go with a mechanical pump myself
Did he say what part , or was it just failure rates ?

Also I may still my Davies Craig as a 'booster' pump as my volume will be considerably more than standard with the radiator in the boot
 

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Did he say what part , or was it just failure rates ?

Also I may still my Davies Craig as a 'booster' pump as my volume will be considerably more than standard with the radiator in the boot
Failure rates, plus you will get signs of faliure on a mechanical pump
 

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The cooper pump would never had been designed to flow for the heat extraction of the Cooper s ,but being a mech pump could cope with it .
easiest solution fabrication wise is to use the cooper pump , but remember you have 2 inlets on the block (one blanked) at the front for the cooper and at the rear for the S (blanked on the cooper) so you could use both.
siamese the 2 inlets into one pipe to the pump this will help with pump cavitation and allow a faster pump speed (pulley size change )
take out the original thermostat ,and blank off the bypass pipe on the housing , now fit 2 separate thermostats in parallel using again siamesed pipes either side of the remote stat housings, and on the rad side of the siamesed pipes weld in a bypass pipe (same as the one you blanked off) connect this to the original rubber pipe removed from the original stat housing .
in effect you are mimicing the original set up but with 2 stats fitted ,and removing the 1 original .
then run the cooper pump a bit faster say 10% (by pulley size)
you now have dual inlets ,a faster spinning pump,less flow restiction by stat,and still have a stat fitted for close control
Or you can with much more fabrication fit a higher flowing pump off another car that is stand alone ie not bolted on to the engine with gaskets ,but use pipe inlets and outlets, Diesel cars have greater cooling requirements so usually have higher flowing pumps .
 

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Did he say what part , or was it just failure rates ?

Also I may still my Davies Craig as a 'booster' pump as my volume will be considerably more than standard with the radiator in the boot
Forgot about the rear rad !! you will need to cater for that ,water pumps are primary flow pumps not pressure pumps so some help would be needed
 

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Why does the block have a second blanked-off inlet? Always wondered..

Or is it just the same block (with different internals) for both R50 and R53 only with the 2 different models each utilizing a different one as the cooling systems are different? Like you say rear for the 53 and front for the 50?
 

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Screaming Devil!
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Interesting again Nige!

Do these elec pumps fail because of fluctuations in volts? Don't know if that makes sense though...

Tom.
 

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I wonder if having a Mini One (Cooper pump of course), i can do anything on the pump to cool the engine a little bit more without sacrificing power...

Can i apply the MINIMANIAUK advice on my car or is it completely useless?
Bare in mind that my engine is going for the 150bhp mark (i hope:thumbup:)

Thanks!
 

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I wonder if having a Mini One (Cooper pump of course), i can do anything on the pump to cool the engine a little bit more without sacrificing power...

Can i apply the MINIMANIAUK advice on my car or is it completely useless?
Bare in mind that my engine is going for the 150bhp mark (i hope:thumbup:)

Thanks!
Changing the thermostat? Would that not help, meaning it opens at a lower temp.
 

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I ment just about the water pump!

I already have the M7 thermostat, wrapped headers, hood insulation off etc..
 

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In the name of Fun
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Discussion Starter #16
I wonder if having a Mini One (Cooper pump of course), i can do anything on the pump to cool the engine a little bit more without sacrificing power...

Can i apply the MINIMANIAUK advice on my car or is it completely useless?
Bare in mind that my engine is going for the 150bhp mark (i hope:thumbup:)

Thanks!
Don't see why not
 
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In the name of Fun
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Discussion Starter #17
Interesting again Nige!

Do these elec pumps fail because of fluctuations in volts? Don't know if that makes sense though...

Tom.
To be truthful Tom I'm not sure if it's the pump failing or rather that they just can't produce enough pressure
When Ric was talking about the water pressure psi in the block needed it made sense but I'm like a nodding dog who goes away having to re-think it all again :blush:
 

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Bit of a waffle from me but I need to tell the whole story so you get the picture . :lol:

As some of you know I changed my water pump form the mechanical one driven by the small gears off the supercharger to a Davies Craig EWP80 and was happy at first

Now at Cadwell Park in July 2010 I had an issue of cooling and the pump seemed to be getting air in it - My suspicions went to head gasket and with the engine failure at Snetterton after extreme temperature issues I was 'ok' with that suspicion .

However on taking the engine to pieces I discovered bits of my chain guide blocking the oil pickup which made me wonder what had really happened to my engine at Snetterton :glare:. That was where I left it until yesterday

I was at Selby with the shell builder and I mentioned that We'll need a mounting point for the Electric water pump and he said - ' oh hang on , my mate has just had real issues with his - let me have a chat with him ' .
So I started worrying .

On the way back home I had time to pop to the engine builder - Ric Wood - and he asked what pump i was using :lol: ('' I was going to ask you'' says I ! ) .

''Ditch the electric pump as we have seen more engine failures with them than without '' he said .
''Only last week on the engine dyno we had a customers car on - with Electric pump- and at 7000rpm you could physically see the hoses collapse and when off throttle blow up again causing hot spikes ''

He explained that water pressure in the block needs to be about 25psi and that is what mechanical pumps give you where as Electrical ones can go as low as 6psi causing steam pockets in the head :w00t:

So with that in mind Floof and I are looking to change to a Cooper pump with a pulley suitable to provide sufficient flow without over spinning ( new pulley )

What are peoples thoughts on water pumps ??

Adam et al - if you are out there looking in - How would I know what the Cooper pump will flow and if it'll be enough for us ?
Nige i have had no problems with that very same pump on my car so i see no reason why you have?
For your set up and what you are going to do with the car i would not go with the mechanical water
pump not a chance.20 mins on track and then come into the pits with the water not flowing round your
engine because its ticking over not good. maybe i have it wrong but there are loads of RACE CARS runnig
electric water pumps for many hours on tracks all over the world with no problem.maybe they are just
lucky or have they just got the maths right?have a good read mate the info is out there.

lee
 

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In the name of Fun
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Discussion Starter #19
I know many many cars have electric pumps mate and I'll still run the electric pump on full chat for the cool down period - that's the idea anyway , by having it wired to the ECU to come in when it's needed

We are going to even the odds out a bit by using both as I have always had a niggling thought that the pump might not be enough forl ours even though i know it says it will be . Something went wrong with my water at Snetterton so I'm not wanting that again
 
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