Thank you, well Themis I thought I had seen it all, until I viewed your YouTube clip, I still cant believe what I've seen, I will say this, it's good to see oil going in, but that's certainly one hell of a unique way to prime the oil pump, in one way I'm glad that's your engine and not mine, but I cringed when I saw what you were doing and have done, worryingly scary Themis.
No one noticed that? Thepenl you said that you used Blown gas tolerances. So If we follow manufacturer instructions, what we have is:New engine tolerances:
(Blown gas used)
View attachment 14509
The stock engine tolerances from the factory were: 0,0225' (top ring).
That was a huge gap 4,5 times the Mahle Motorsport spec and explains the oil consumption from brand new. It also indicates that it is not due to wear because the oil consumption was extremely stable from 0 to 44k miles.
I don't know if all of these engines have the same tolerances, maybe mine was built on a Saturday night!
Also, all of the leak-down tests I have done previously indicated a 40% blow by (green region=acceptable is 20-40%).
Yesterday I did a leak-down test to the new assembled engine...
With 7bar air input I get 5% blow by on all 4 cylinders which practically is very tight!
Wow, that's one hell of a first post...No one noticed that? Thepenl you said that you used Blown gas tolerances. So If we follow manufacturer instructions, what we have is:
bore (yours is 77.5mm -> 3.0511") x 0.0050" = 0.0152". You forgot to make the multiplication.
So factory tolerance is 1.4 times the Mahle spec and explains that your car was built on a working day for sure.
Hope that this was just your mistake and had nothing to do with the garage you rebuild the engine. Otherwise... ::getcoat::
Reducing blow-by by 35% with 0.0073" smaller ring gap, when you'll be on WOT at 4th-5th-6th gear, running 800 C EGT, the ring gap will close at least 0.001" which means you will have 4.7% less blow-by. Keep also in mind that your engine is new and when your rings sit properly on break-in period, you will have better sealing! As Nickbmw said you will flerting with a piston/ring detonation... Do not forget how many stock r56 have piston detonation issues caused to the 2nd ring, with stock tolerances!
I think that either the leak-down test results are crap, or the second ring is too tight Hmmm. Maybe both. It's the first time in my life that I've seen the second ring with less tolerance that the first one. JE, Wiseco, Cp, always have the second ring with bigger gap than the first. Except some Nitrus occasions.
Anyways. Forged internals have nothing similar with factory ones. They have totally different behaviour on heating up and cooling down. Even with the same tolerances, you would notice different oil consumption. Which oil did you use before the engine rebuild and which are you going to use regularly? Meaning grade.
IMO you will see higher oil consumption due to the forged internals.
Hell yeah its the first post. I'm tryin not to write in forums.. It's your mistake, do not tell me I fucked up with the calculations. I have my car running good for over 2 years with forged internals built with my fucked up calculations. I was willing just to help you.Wow, that's one hell of a first post...
Where were you all that time?
Thanks for chiming in...
No, I did NOT forget to make the multiplication on the top gap used.
I made a mistake on the number (0,0225') the gap measured by filler...apparently I divided this number with the bore (which I shouldn't have)...so it's 0,0225*3,051=0,0686' (as measured by filler 1,75mm)
Sadly that fucks up all of your calculations, sorry.
I used, use and will be using Motul 300V series 5-30.
I don't know your experience in engine internals, but the thermal properties of a Wiseco, JE and CP is totally different to a Mahle Motorsport. And that was one of the reasons I chose to go with Mahle. Plus the fact that the lot uses a centered pin, which I didn't want...and the coatings they use look fake compared to Mahle. And the piston slap on cold starts is very noticeable, but with Mahle it's not.
And many other things I can think of, but now it's not the time to discuss them.
There is always a first time in our lives, and from your writings I assume you never used the brand Mahle...
Maybe you should try it and compare it with the others...I did use all of the brands in many projects and think that Mahle differs in many good ways than the lot.
Wow, slow down cowboy...take your time and re-read what I wrote...you obviously got it wrong (no offense intended)!Hell yeah its the first post. I'm tryin not to write in forums.. It's your mistake, do not tell me I fucked up with the calculations. I have my car running good for over 2 years with forged internals built with my fucked up calculations. I was willing just to help you.
In my opinion, there is no way your car has 0.0686" ring gap. Your rings should have several damage on their perimeter to open so much. Either you don't want to admit your fault, or you measured wrong.
As for your concerns.. I've never used Mahle motorsport internals. The most recent example I heard from a dude in central EU, that rebuild his jcw motor with mahle pistons, garrett 2860rs, running 23psi. and had a piston detonation. Thanks god without screwing the cylinder. Since March 2012, the car is running wiseco internals, with just the same setup, and even more aggressive map, without any problem at all. 346bhp, 45lb/ft.
And just for the record. The piston slap is due to the rings. Go with a Wiseco piston with zero tolerance and you'll hear nothing. A little more ring gap and you'll here piston slapping.
The reason for writing up, is that during the whole project you kept being over any opinion and over everyone. Keep your eyes closed and listen to no one. It's your own project, do whatever you want to. IMO thsi thread is just a demonstration of you, your financial abilities and your ego brain. I'm so sorry for interrupting you from your fantastic calculations. Go on. You have the greatest mini ever fixed. The most evolving one. Have a nice day.
Does this 'dude' in Central EU have a project thread or a build thread at all?As for your concerns.. I've never used Mahle motorsport internals. The most recent example I heard from a dude in central EU, that rebuild his jcw motor with mahle pistons, garrett 2860rs, running 23psi. and had a piston detonation. Thanks god without screwing the cylinder. Since March 2012, the car is running wiseco internals, with just the same setup, and even more aggressive map, without any problem at all. 346bhp, 45lb/ft.
i think your reply is spot on old chap :thumbup1:
It's nice to see some of you are thinking this way and understand that I am not here to brag about my money and my "great" Mini. I am modest in real life, so if my posts where guiding you in the opposite direction, I do apologize. As none of you have met me in person, it's impossible to see where I'm coming from and WHO I really am...Let's just give you a hint...I've been having fun with various project cars that I owned for the last 20years...I wasn't born yesterday and my life experiences are enough to provide my own 5-member family (shortly No. 5 is coming) all they need.Well i for one thank all people that contribute to this build as i have learned alot.
At this present time Themis is really helping the R56 community with the detailed information he provides but if you have equal knowledge (kkouk) please share as we R56 owners really need more detrailed project threads.
Themis you did make me smile " My Mini is not the greatest ever...it's far from great actually...only 250bhp is the target" some what i am not convinced by :lol:
You think I am joking? The target is 250bhp for my everyday commutes, my track time (2013 will be much of that happening), my driving skills, the Greek track potential (there is not much) and the longevity of my car...some of you won't understand it, but that's ok with me...no problem!EFA...:lol: