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Themis
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Discussion Starter #22 (Edited)
Turbo components...

Stock MCS exhaust manifold (part No.11627574366) on the first photo, stock MCS turbo (part No. 11657565912) on the second. (factory fitted) At that time the mileage was around 15.000 as I can recall.

MCS mani IMG_1349.jpg

MCS turbo IMG_1348.jpg

Notices:
1. Both the turbo and mani have cracks at the same ports (1-3 scroll).
2. The cracks are only internally seen.
3. Although the pic is blurry you can still see the uneven/unmatched connection between turbo/mani (a thin perimeter is colored differently-brighter color)
4. On both items the middle part is overheated (dark red color)
5. On the turbo the 1-3port (cracked one) compared to 2-4 is more prone to overheating (the inside walls of the 1-3 are snow white=cooked) whereas the 2-4 are not. The reason is, probably because 1 is the shortest runner, thus the hottest, and 1-3 turbo port has a wrong inside curvature. It is restrictive compared to 2-4 port and induces higher temps (proved that later with monitoring EGT of each port).



Now, lets move on the other set of turbo-mani.

Stock JCW exhaust manifold (part No.11657568591) (part of the JCW engine kit)
Stock MCS turbo (part No. 11657600890)
The mileage was around 35.000.

MCS Turbo: IMG_3414.jpg IMG_3413.jpg


JCW mani: IMG_3419.jpg

Notices:
1. Exactly the same crack patterns,at the same places, same overheating colors as the previous configuration.
2. On the first pic of the turbo you can clearly see the flaw in the internal curvature of the 1-3port, whereas the 2-4 port is free flowing.

Turbo failure will come eventually after these cracks in many different ways. Shafts are snapping, oil lines blockage, extensive cracks. Not exactly rare in the R56 world...
 

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As a civil Engineer , you would not build 3 more floors on a house with original foundations , apply the same to your project .
Many see me as captain doom and gloom , and have ignored advice ,taken cheaper shortcuts ,missing vital basic foundations , hence the ever growing engine failures and builds :lol:
the original turbo is not a great one ,and not easy to swap without matching parts ,revs are not easy to chase with DI .
Watch out for boost spikes or boost creep ,no boost cut can go wrong fast , the downpipe can be used as a physical boost restriction .
Warping rocker covers , oh lord ,just how hot is that getting ? and whats the oil doing ?
its good of you to pass on info , this is what forums are about ..
 

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Themis
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Discussion Starter #24 (Edited)
As a civil Engineer , you would not build 3 more floors on a house with original foundations , apply the same to your project .
Many see me as captain doom and gloom , and have ignored advice ,taken cheaper shortcuts ,missing vital basic foundations , hence the ever growing engine failures and builds :lol:
the original turbo is not a great one ,and not easy to swap without matching parts ,revs are not easy to chase with DI .
Watch out for boost spikes or boost creep ,no boost cut can go wrong fast , the downpipe can be used as a physical boost restriction .
Warping rocker covers , oh lord ,just how hot is that getting ? and whats the oil doing ?
its good of you to pass on info , this is what forums are about ..
The principles in Engineering are the same...
I, as a professional Engineer, follow the rules blindly:
Firstly thorough design, then finite element analysis of the whole structure and finally construct based on detailed design plans.
Some modifications to the initial plans are always made, but that means that they have to be studied from the beginning. If they are not, you will definitely face problems due to lack of proper design.

I always listen to people, everyone has something to say which may be interesting. You are more than welcome to share your thoughts and knowledge.

The boost-cut scenarios have been in my life for so long with previous maps that I had and I learned everything about them. I know that my free flowing DP did not help the boost (restricting it a bit) but Evolve DID find the way to overcome something that is said it can not be done...and I would not believe anyone for that, but now I have personal experience on the matter and the proof to back up what I write.

With the stock tune it is very hot...that's when my rocker cover started warping. I am in the process of collecting data logs of oil pressure and temps, to help me understand if there is an improvement to be made on cooling the oil. The oil I use is no long-life cheap stuff and it needs to be changed every hardly 5000miles, so in that aspect it is coping just fine...

Passing on info is good and I like to be a member of this forum for that matter. I know that there are knowledgeable people over here and it is very educating for me reading to what they have to say...
 

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Themis
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1,791 Posts
Discussion Starter #26 (Edited)
Exhaust info...

First of all lets start from examining the stock exhaust design. It starts wider on the DP exit and gets narrower (gradually) till it reaches the inlet of the back box.

So:

From the DP outlet to the flexim inlet: 63,5mm (2,5'')
From the flexim outlet till the middle resonator inlet: 60mm (2,35'')
From the outlet of the middle resonator till the inlet of the back box: 55mm (2,16'')

Now there is nothing wrong with that, in my opinion, but there is a small problem in the design of the exhaust: It has crashed bends...
And although I loved the sound of the stock pipe, I wanted to get rid off the faulty bends.
That's why I custom-made a straight pipe, using the stock flexim, till the inlet of the JCW kit back box. Used the most advanced bend-machine to create perfect bends without crashes with a 304ss pipe at 63,5mm all the way...

Here are some photos of the process:

IMG_3081.jpg IMG_3086.jpg IMG_3088.jpg IMG_3112.jpg IMG_3107.jpg

this is my current setup for Rally mode.

For Road mode, I added a 63,5mm (2,5'') middle resonator cause my ears kept bleeding from the drone...:lol:

Oh, I forgot to tell you that I am preparing a shortcut version of the Rally mode (deleting the back box), which will be a side short exhaust exiting from the right side of the vehicle in the middle of the passengers door...I just have to be careful not to burn the car:lol:


edit: Have been using the Akrapovic 100cpi DP for over three years now which works and sounds like a charm.
 

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IMpressive :thumbup: Thanks for getting the thread up as its making interesting reading :)

Just noticed oil around my rocker cover yesterday so this came at the right time as I will need to get that sorted :)
Oil can be where you spill on top ups at least mine was when mini commented on it needing a new gasket and I knew I had spilt it prior to taking it there.
 

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Stock MCS exhaust manifold (part No.11627574366) on the first photo, stock MCS turbo (part No. 11657565912) on the second. (factory fitted) At that time the mileage was around 15.000 as I can recall.

MCS mani View attachment 11380

MCS turbo View attachment 11381

Notices:
1. Both the turbo and mani have cracks at the same ports (1-3 scroll).
2. The cracks are only internally seen.
3. Although the pic is blurry you can still see the uneven/unmatched connection between turbo/mani (a thin perimeter is colored differently-brighter color)
4. On both items the middle part is overheated (dark red color)
5. On the turbo the 1-3port (cracked one) compared to 2-4 is more prone to overheating (the inside walls of the 1-3 are snow white=cooked) whereas the 2-4 are not. The reason is, probably because 1 is the shortest runner, thus the hottest, and 1-3 turbo port has a wrong inside curvature. It is restrictive compared to 2-4 port and induces higher temps (proved that later with monitoring EGT of each port).



Now, lets move on the other set of turbo-mani.

Stock JCW exhaust manifold (part No.11657568591) (part of the JCW engine kit)
Stock MCS turbo (part No. 11657600890)
The mileage was around 35.000.

MCS Turbo: View attachment 11382 View attachment 11383


JCW mani: View attachment 11384

Notices:
1. Exactly the same crack patterns,at the same places, same overheating colors as the previous configuration.
2. On the first pic of the turbo you can clearly see the flaw in the internal curvature of the 1-3port, whereas the 2-4 port is free flowing.

Turbo failure will come eventually after these cracks in many different ways. Shafts are snapping, oil lines blockage, extensive cracks. Not exactly rare in the R56 world...
So have the modified Manifold and Turbo worked and if so would you mind sharing what would be best to do prior to fitment as that is what I am looking at next at same time as fitting my Evolve FMIC and cleaning inlet maifold, throttlebody and attempting a de-coke.
 

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Themis
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1,791 Posts
Discussion Starter #29
So have the modified Manifold and Turbo worked and if so would you mind sharing what would be best to do prior to fitment as that is what I am looking at next at same time as fitting my Evolve FMIC and cleaning inlet maifold, throttlebody and attempting a de-coke.
The answer to your questions is a video of acceleration...of course they worked mate and pretty well, I reckon...
Now, in order to have the full report we will have to wait until next year to take this turbo and manifold out and make appropriate inspections for defects. It's been a month since running the modified JCW turbo and new design manifold with stock JCW kit tune and a week since the Evolve remap.

I could advise you to look after some issues like the ones I described. Uneven ports (turbo to mani) and the port 1-3 internally.
But, of course first inspect thoroughly your old turbo and exhaust manifold (post pictures here) and this will tell you what to do...the colors, the possible cracks, the measurements you take...you can then compare your problem to other's, read what we have to say and finally decide for yourself what to do. I'm no mechanic to tell you what to do unfortunately, and really it's a trust issue. I think you should find a professional mechanic and guide him in the right direction.
I will personally give you as much guidance as you like, based on my small experience...

Honestly
Themis
 

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1 rocker cover warping ; simply too hot ,or uneven heating /cooldown
did you know Mini sealed the bonnet to allow faster warm up and save 0.000000000001% fuel burn - this needs addressing with power hikes
 

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1 rocker cover warping ; simply too hot ,or uneven heating /cooldown
did you know Mini sealed the bonnet to allow faster warm up and save 0.000000000001% fuel burn - this needs addressing with power hikes
Is there an easy way to unseal?
 

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Themis
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Discussion Starter #33
Is there an easy way to unseal?
Take off the grill from the hood scoop and loose the hood-scoop warping-effect at the same time. Apparently this area is very hot. If you watch carefully from inside the car, the heat can be seen exiting the hood scoop!!!
Or even use a Challenge under bonnet air guide to the turbo to cool things down.
I've done the first one and waiting for the second one to be delivered at my door. The removal of the hood-scoop's grill is very easy and worth doing it.
Something else would be to lift the bonnet a little bit from the windscreen's side to allow further cool down of the engine. This is an old trick which works many years in the tuning world. I will have to see how it can be done...but I assume it won't be too hard to do.
 

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Take off the grill from the hood scoop and loose the hood-scoop warping-effect at the same time. Apparently this area is very hot. If you watch carefully from inside the car, the heat can be seen exiting the hood scoop!!!
Or even use a Challenge under bonnet air guide to the turbo to cool things down.
I've done the first one and waiting for the second one to be delivered at my door. The removal of the hood-scoop's grill is very easy and worth doing it.
Something else would be to lift the bonnet a little bit from the windscreen's side to allow further cool down of the engine. This is an old trick which works many years in the tuning world. I will have to see how it can be done...but I assume it won't be too hard to do.
Excellent already drilled out scoop and have challenge turbo scoop :)
 

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Cut a big hole in the bonnet :lol:
Its unusual , normally the under bonnet air , rad outlet /air con outlet works with the under tray and pulls air out the bottom ,christ knows what mini did ,well him and the wind tunnel guy
another oddity the water system is delayed for 400 seconds , yet the turbo is water cooled -what happens if you spank it cold?
the oil system is in low flow mode too , this is again to save 2 p worth of fuel , but at odds to normal performance engines, some go 10 bar pressure and over =maximum flow at all times
Always pump the most oil you can and go from there .
All the stop start and using elect fan in place of a viscous one - with a turbo engine .
you know the turbo is hotter than hades ,heat shields can cause the turbo to not disperse it heat fast enough .
Its modern thinking or actually- not thinking -:lol:
 

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Themis
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Discussion Starter #37
Cut a big hole in the bonnet :lol:
Its unusual , normally the under bonnet air , rad outlet /air con outlet works with the under tray and pulls air out the bottom ,christ knows what mini did ,well him and the wind tunnel guy
another oddity the water system is delayed for 400 seconds , yet the turbo is water cooled -what happens if you spank it cold?
the oil system is in low flow mode too , this is again to save 2 p worth of fuel , but at odds to normal performance engines, some go 10 bar pressure and over =maximum flow at all times
Always pump the most oil you can and go from there .
All the stop start and using elect fan in place of a viscous one - with a turbo engine .
you know the turbo is hotter than hades ,heat shields can cause the turbo to not disperse it heat fast enough .
Its modern thinking or actually- not thinking -:lol:
All of these have come into my attention and most of them are within the set parameters of the ECU. If only i knew how to manipulate them...Would you happen to know?
 

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In short - no !
The ECU parameters dont work though do they? as your rocker warps , manifold/turbo cracks, on physical inspection .

getting data is going to be expensive and consume time - spot laser temp gun is a good tool , as is egt after the turbo and boost pressure in manifold and post turbo
pressure/temp dropped across the turbine will build a picture and show the effect of any down pipe /exhaust change or manifold alteration .
None of this helps if the turbo/manifold is simply shit (read shit for high power or rpms or spool)
 

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Hi, newbie here, just learning about these engines, excellent info keep it coming if you don't mind

another oddity the water system is delayed for 400 seconds , yet the turbo is water cooled -what happens if you spank it cold?
the oil system is in low flow mode too , this is again to save 2 p worth of fuel , but at odds to normal performance engines
Is this correct, the "water cooled turbo" doesn't get it's water cooling for like 6.5 minutes after start up? WTF :eek:hmy:

All of these have come into my attention and most of them are within the set parameters of the ECU. If only i knew how to manipulate them...Would you happen to know?
Would someone like Evolve be able to rectify these settings do you think? I will, of course, ask them direct when I plan my visit but would appreciate your input.
 
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