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Bugger
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Discussion Starter #401
small shiny evlen made trrime bombs like piston rungs
 

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People in glass houses.....:laugh:

You really should try and be a more moral person and as a vendor you should not resort to childish antics and petty name calling.

Promote your own products in an ethical manner and leave others alone - you may then gain respect of both your peers and potential customers
 

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"Great write up but missing imo the mowt important data, what did the inlet temps start at on both cars?"


"Very simple
Eaton started at hotter temps on every log they show "


The dyno numbers are corrected , for temperature,humidity,and pressure of the day so the output both torque and power also become relative
this is the purpose of the dyno ..
errors would only exist if there was temperature clipping and timing being pulled ie a very hot day and IAT got over the set limits
If this happened you would see it on the dyno plot ... you dont !!
The dyno is in California , not best known for its arctic conditions !! usually rather hot and there showed no temp clipping in either case ...
197 whp was the result on a stock test car with only the charger fitted , someone please tell me how in any shape or form this was a bad thing ....or indeed that it cant be improved upon greatly , or having a wide torque band is not good or having the chance of more boost is not a good thing or .. I give up ,
As a base kit it looks good , well engineered given the MINIs awful installation originally ,and can only get better ,well priced too but I suspect in the UK they should offer a credit facility , Monthly payments for the win -lol


What colour wheels should I get ?::getcoat::
 

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the only one that is telling lies is you...............
first off you ask Jeff to not charge you duties on $900 which you said would equate to about $400 in duties
then you ask him to ship to your "cousin" in USA........ glad to know Matt Richter is your cousin..........seriously????
Seriously??????? yes ROFLMAO.............still ROFLMAO........................
then you ask to ship to Thumper after you have to find out you have to pay CA sales tax by shipping to Matt
now you have pissed off Jeff because you have lied to him...........and asked him to do illegal stuff...........

so show your thumper dyno up.............. let's see the gains................
OR
are you scared of being exposed as a liar again?

impatiently waiting.................
loooool you're so funny trying to bring a story that you were never involved in! i do not even see the reason mentioning that here.. but just as to give my final answer..

As am a person that stands for what says!
my only, maybe, mistake was that i indeed said on our previous communications that it would be better to send it over to my "cousin".. the way i named Matt cousin is that i felt that probably it would be more inconvenient to say to a salesman send it over a friend.. wanted it to make him feel that he is a person close to me and someone whom i trust...
I do not really find what is so bad about that.. anyway.. your problem...
I NEVER told Jeff not to charge me duties.. asked him not to state the real price while sending via usps.. told you once more, you did that for me and other customers in Greece!.. except if you're illegal.. anyway it is ok for me that Jeff is legal and i accepted his refusal.
Yes my third proposal was to send over to Mike Thumper.. (you see some guys are Serious and trustful) .. in my point of view when i asked Jeff to send over Usa, he should have advised me that there are specific taxes on certain states.. before accepting my payment.. he did not.. i was out of the calculated budget.. always based on his totals!

and just to end this, i post the series of email between me and Jeff.. (Matt's address is replaced with dots.. also message order is the reverse.. bottom-up)

"From: Jeff Howerton <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: hfs6
Date: February 12, 2011 3:11:16 AM GMT+02:00
To: George
George,

We have refunded your funds for the kit and accessories you have purchased. We are not comfortable with recording the improper amount of duties on the shipping label to you. We are also not comfortable shipping the kit to a vendor we do not have a working relationship with. Below we have provided links to the USA and worldwide Aquamist dealers so you can acquire a kit.

Aquamist suppliers USA Dealers

Aquamist suppliers Worldwide Dealers.

We apologize for any inconvenience and wish we could have met your needs. Good luck with the MINI.

Jeff Howerton
Howerton Engineering


From: George
To: Jeff Howerton <[email protected]>
Sent: Fri, February 11, 2011 3:50:52 AM
Subject: Re: hfs6

Nope and i did send you the address with the payment first place.. You did not inform me on that! Check the paypal first transfer.

The other option is to do usps priority mail and low cost stated!
Or i can ask mike thumper.. Can you send it there?

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 11, 2011, at 13:26, Jeff Howerton <[email protected]> wrote:

I thought you were shipping somewhere else. I am supposed to charge Sales Tax if I ship within CA. You don't have anyone else that can receive this?

Jeff Howerton
Howerton Engineering


From: George
To: Jeff Howerton <[email protected]>
Sent: Fri, February 11, 2011 2:22:22 AM
Subject: Re: hfs6

Matt ....
.........
.........

please let me know as soon as you send
On Feb 11, 2011, at 6:48 AM, Jeff Howerton wrote:

What is the shipping address in the US we will be sending the kit to?

Jeff Howerton
Howerton Engineering
 

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we dyno'd numerous ones in Florida on the same dyno as everyone else. None made over 200whp..............
the one on the dynapack with NS1 cam etc made 212whp on a DYNAPACK...............................

ones with RMW header/cam and stock heads made up to 220whp on the same one.............
numerous ones.. nice to confirm how a nice product sales! :)

get the dyno mr no data! lol it may take you up to 8 months to complete reading it.. similar to your remote tuning duration time!!!! loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool

 

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Haven't even seen it in action and the vultures are circuling :laugh::laugh:

You know what I'm like at selling stuff...........you only have to look upstairs in the wardrobe, upstairs at work and in the yard :)
 

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Haven't even seen it in action and the vultures are circuling :laugh::laugh:

You know what I'm like at selling stuff...........you only have to look upstairs in the wardrobe, upstairs at work and in the yard :)
You could have dropped it in mine Wednesday lol. My car sits half the time too lol
 

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:) yes but you know u want a turbo...............or do u now :)

I must admit you do have the right combo for the Sprintex.

Unfortunatley we need a car thats with us all the time so that we can try stuff when he have 5 mins.......................so it would proberly end up on the Power Ranger.

Though we are trying to gather enough parts to build up quiet a few bullets for the rest of the year.
 

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PowerRanger Reborn
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Unfortunatley we need a car thats with us all the time so that we can try stuff when he have 5 mins.......................so it would proberly end up on the Power Ranger.
Though we are trying to gather enough parts to build up quiet a few bullets for the rest of the year.
This is gonna be a fun few years, can wait to see what it makes in old red.

Love the idea of the shotout on the friday before MITP to, the all big power mini's in one place for 3 days :thumbup1:
 

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"Great write up but missing imo the mowt important data, what did the inlet temps start at on both cars?"


"Very simple
Eaton started at hotter temps on every log they show "


The dyno numbers are corrected , for temperature,humidity,and pressure of the day so the output both torque and power also become relative
this is the purpose of the dyno ..
errors would only exist if there was temperature clipping and timing being pulled ie a very hot day and IAT got over the set limits
If this happened you would see it on the dyno plot ... you dont !!
The dyno is in California , not best known for its arctic conditions !! usually rather hot and there showed no temp clipping in either case ...
197 whp was the result on a stock test car with only the charger fitted , someone please tell me how in any shape or form this was a bad thing ....or indeed that it cant be improved upon greatly , or having a wide torque band is not good or having the chance of more boost is not a good thing or .. I give up ,
As a base kit it looks good , well engineered given the MINIs awful installation originally ,and can only get better ,well priced too but I suspect in the UK they should offer a credit facility , Monthly payments for the win -lol


What colour wheels should I get ?::getcoat::
No fucking shit Sherlock, I still want to see the data so I can understand how it builds hear across the rev range to see how much better it deals with the heat than the eaton!

It's a supercharger swap, plain and simple, if it wasn't better than the eaton there would be no point doing it. My question before spending out on one would be total install costs vs results compared to adding a turbo to go twincharge or turbo standalone etc. At some point the £ per bhp ratio will have to come in to play. £2k+ to get 200whp when you can get the same with Dave.f, 15% pulley and GP ic is not value for money but as yet right now no one involved with it has said what bracket power/application its pitched at.

In time it could turn out to be the first mod recommend to do to a Cooper S, but until its tested we don't yet know where it will fit in to the tuning scene as we've got one tuner saying its junk on track with a smaller pulley but fine as a street application. The other has shown the gains so far on the dyno vs a stock 15% Mini.

I remember one of the most respected mini tuners in the world saying "why are you still messing about trying to find little gains here and there with superchargers, just turbo it already!"
 

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Haven't even seen it in action and the vultures are circuling :laugh::laugh:

You know what I'm like at selling stuff...........you only have to look upstairs in the wardrobe, upstairs at work and in the yard :)
I had first dibbs :lol:

The only problem i see here, is, if its being fitted straight off to Old Red, then the mods already are miles off what everyone else has as a street application. This is a road designed kit with a stage 2 option which im guessing is for the track?

IMO - It needs to be fitted to a car with cam, injectors and a tune, so that the majority of us will get a good idea of where we can go and what power we can make for a daily application and for a daily run about.
 

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MIN-Tily Challenged
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No fucking shit Sherlock, I still want to see the data so I can understand how it builds hear across the rev range to see how much better it deals with the heat than the eaton!

It's a supercharger swap, plain and simple, if it wasn't better than the eaton there would be no point doing it. My question before spending out on one would be total install costs vs results compared to adding a turbo to go twincharge or turbo standalone etc. At some point the £ per bhp ratio will have to come in to play. £2k+ to get 200whp when you can get the same with Dave.f, 15% pulley and GP ic is not value for money but as yet right now no one involved with it has said what bracket power/application its pitched at.

In time it could turn out to be the first mod recommend to do to a Cooper S, but until its tested we don't yet know where it will fit in to the tuning scene as we've got one tuner saying its junk on track with a smaller pulley but fine as a street application. The other has shown the gains so far on the dyno vs a stock 15% Mini.

I remember one of the most respected mini tuners in the world saying "why are you still messing about trying to find little gains here and there with superchargers, just turbo it already!"
hp for £ spent will allways be the pully job on an eaton to get past 200 hp....end of story
after this point everything seems to be much more expensive for mini tuning than for just about anything else on the road
if i am going to spend M3 money i will go and buy an M3

so imho this has work for those wishing to get well past 250+ but who would not like to go to the expense of custom engine internals and a standalone ecu etc

when i 1st looked at buying a mini most hot hatchs at a similar price point were running around 200 bp
250 bhp is now a minimum requirement with lots of cars ticking that box stock

to spend a fair chunk of cash on mine as it stands i would need to see 320 bhp to be worth it
 

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I had first dibbs :lol:

The only problem i see here, is, if its being fitted straight off to Old Red, then the mods already are miles off what everyone else has as a street application. This is a road designed kit with a stage 2 option which im guessing is for the track?

IMO - It needs to be fitted to a car with cam, injectors and a tune, so that the majority of us will get a good idea of where we can go and what power we can make for a daily application and for a daily run about.

This ^^ and then street driven Alski style as I can understand why might then (results dependant) choose this before putting on a head. It would also need to be taken on one track day to see how it copes as most owners on here will do probably one track day a year if they're on here.
 

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Just a reminder of how this all started from feedback gained of the original kit on track... I'm hoping the kit 1320 have is the updated version but from re-reading it sounds like a no brainer on drag strip just not for a fully modded MCS on track... so if it is to be a street kit then PD has it on the money for testing IMO, but feel free to stick it on the Power Ranger too incase Ian and Jan are wrong.

I've got it on my car right now and have had it since April or so. Ask and I'll tell you what I know. I already told Paul, No dyno sheets other then the very first one which made 279whp and 236wtq. Since the day we put it on we haven't gotten it to lay runs over on it's self, falls off like 20-30hp a pull. I think the best we got it to was 291whp and 257wtq. But just as before, the very next pull it was like 260whp, then 240, so on and so on. Meth hasn't made much of a difference. I think for drag racing it'll be fine but for road racing we aren't interested in what it makes on Pull #1... we care about Pull #10 in a row and it's making eaton numbers by then. In fact at Sebring it was up over 10mph on the first straight, by the end of the lap it was less mph then what it did with the eaton, no meth (or water) and stock intercooler we saw IAT's of 222f in one lap. It doesn't appear that the heat is as much as being created by the boost as the blower it's self heating up. Letting it sit there and idle you can boil water on the case in just a matter of minutes from stone cold. I'm still waiting on a solution for this from sprintex, last I was told was to drain the oil out of the blower and run it on fumes..... YIKES!
I'm going to put oil back in it and run it as an autocross blower till Jan gets his new stuff going. Autox is like 45-60 seconds runs. It won't heat up enough in that short time so with that hp and tq it'll work just fine for that. In fact I expect it to be AWESOME.
Another interesting point is the kit relocates the Knock sensor. Jan mentioned last time we had it on the dyno that he didn't think it was picking up knock. He can relay more on why he thought that.

Something of interest is that at VIR for the UTCC we attempted running a Air to water with a radiator and a 3 gallon tank which we vented and filled with dry ice and antifreeze. On the out lap (warm up lap) babying the car I ran the system off and hit the on button just before taking the green flag. I saw intake temps of 160-180f babying it on the out lap using no boost. Hit the switch for the air to water and it dropped to about 100 then shot up and boiled the water out of the tank using all the dry ice in less then a lap. This baby creates some serious heat.
When we first put it on we ran 11psi (iirc) and it seemed to be ok, no crazy intake temps, no falling off up top. But I think what we are experiencing is the bearings starting to go in the blower because it's getting worse with time. I have no proof of this, I sent the blower back after the initial findings and the us distributor went though it and told me it was fine. I think if you keep the boost very low it'll do great (which is what they told me they want to sell). But IMHO who's going to drop $3k to make the same hp as an eaton. They told me they want to hit the market of guys that had eaton failures and for a few bucks more get into a better blower. The issue I see is I can by Reman Eaton's locally from a rebuilder with a 2 year warranty for $550! Good luck talking someone into a $2500 sorta upgrade.
It was the first hot laps of the weekend so I'll give him that. But that car I do believe ran a 2:02 in that session (fastest I've seen a F430 challenge go around there is about a 2min dead). I was fairly certain our car would run a 2:04-05. You can ask Jan when he asks me what lap time I plan on running I'm usually decently accruate to within a couple 1/10ths. I was planning a high 2:04 in the car. I was extremely pissed off about the weld breaking. The amount of money tossed out the window that weekend was heartbreaking from a welder that didn't understand what penetration is.

You can actually hear it hit it's "wall" coming into the climbing esse's. That was 7000rpm in 5th and I was hessitant (first lap) as to weather the car would carry the esse's flat out (which as I did it i realized it would) or weither to leave it in 5th because I'd be braking. When I realized I wouldn't need to brake I put it in 6th. But IIRC on those tires 7000rpm in 5th was around 135mph. But you can hear it just stops pulling and it sounds funny.
Oh and Adam please re-read what you originally posted before calling me out on asking for more dyno data as that data might help you with your original thoughts.

Something very wrong going on there ,looking at the PDF pictures the intake is dogshit ! they need to alter that !! Move the throttle body to the rear of the charger as a start - I can see that they tried to make it a direct replacement for the eaton and that is half the problem instal wise ,
Overspeeding it , the bearings need to be very good I suspect they are not and its generating huge internal losses compounded by the intake ,and heat rising .
Wrong bearings at high speed cause float and rotors to move ,in turn cause heat ,in turn cause more rotor movement in turn,.....
It's got fail written all over it!!
The whole instal needs tailoring to the engine not adapting , this costs and not for the cheapo mini Market .
 

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Res Non Verba
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This is how I feel about it right now



Looking forward to more testing, with UK cars and on Dynos that we are able benchmark against. Even better would be back to back runs on the rollers and then a blast up the strip.

If this setup can perform better during the summer months then great and if it gets me better MPG on my commute, great.

Need to know the cost of the kit and labour, although if its not harder than a supercharger swop maybe I could do it myself :)lol:).

Most of these questions have already been answered to some extent and I've lost them in amongst the 400+ replies :blush:
 
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