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aka Big Daddy
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1,863 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Seriously thinking about buying a R56 noe that there are serious tuning options available.

However is it worthwhile spending the extra $$$$ on getting a JCW or just get an S and whack a hybrid turbo on it?

If I do get one I plan of modding the shit out of the engine
 

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omd
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I asked evolve this question and they recommended the JCW as the engine is stronger... so I bought a normal S :laugh: they were just so much cheaper and still have a lot of potential (hybrid turbo nom)!
 

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I'd go JCW for the stronger internals, once the stock R56 S is done and the tuning turns to the JCW I think you'll see some mental numbers (not that the standard R56 yields ain't good).

As a side note though I like how there is still no definitive data on tuning impact of stock R56 internals but everyone is choosing to ignore what was a raging "cheese engine" debate, no one else think this or is it just me?
 

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I Like Turtles.
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If you can afford both then go for the JCW, I couldnt addort or justify spending so much more at the time so got a MCS, just as happy and ample tuning capability for my liking :]
 

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aka Big Daddy
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Discussion Starter #5
I thought the JCW does not have stronger internals than the S.....

The only difference betwen the internals of a JCW and S is a different crown design to give the JCW motor lower compression. The JCW has a piston CR ratio of 10.0:1 while the Cooper S has a piston CR ratio of 10.5:1 the pistons are made by Mahle for both models and are forged. As for the rest of the engine internals everything else is the SAME.
 

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Think CZAR states that there is little difference internally. And also read somewhere that the CR on the MCS makes it great when tuned.

If there is a price difference and you are going to tune I would go to Stage 3 on a MCS ie Turbo back, FMIC and Remap which would probably be less money than the difference between the 2 cars. That is what I was going to do but now fitting the JCW Manifold as well and either a JCW Turbo or a Billet Compressor wheel to the standard Turbo. In no rush as I have spent ebough recently as it is.
 

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Throttle Junkie
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I was under the impression that the JCW does have strengthened internals, being one of the reasons for buying a JCW over an S. I found this on the SwitchBack:

The basic engine remains unchanged, the crankcase, crankshaft, conrods all remain standard. The intake valves and valve seat rings are upgraded, piston sidewalls reinforced and compression ratio reduced to 10.0:1. The cylinder head has increased wall thickness to reduce any localised stress or hot spots when running at peak performance.

To gulp in a optimum volume of air the MINI John Cooper Works features a larger air mass sensor and charge air line, which results in a greater throughput of clean air and a reduction in the potential loss of throttle power. These are paired with a larger air intake to feed the system the required quantity of oxygen.
 

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Think Roger (czar) has taken an engine apart and found part numbers to be same so how can there be a difference in these things......
 

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omd
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i too was wondering about fuel delivery, with such large gains to be had with simple mods at what point do the injectors start to run out of steam?
 

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So not including the bolt-ons the S engine is the same as the JCW bar lower compression pistons on the JCW? So the JCW pistons aren't any stronger than the S pistons which people were led to believe a few months ago?

So technically, the turbo on the S creating the same amount of boost with the same manifold, downpipe etc as the JCW will make more power due to its higher compression?

Are the transmissions different or was that just a rumour?
 

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Seems they've put a bit more effort into the (supposed) changes on the R56 JCW than they did with the R53. Lower compression, revised (I'm guessing shorter) gear ratios as well as 'strengthened' gearbox internals, different flywheel and clutch pressure plate and different ECU..

I like to think..well actually i KNOW the stock R53 platform (engine and transmission) never needed anything 'uprating' though as it was already a very solid and capable base :D

However the R56 is a very different beast.
 

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Seriously thinking about buying a R56 noe that there are serious tuning options available.

However is it worthwhile spending the extra $$$$ on getting a JCW or just get an S and whack a hybrid turbo on it?

If I do get one I plan of modding the shit out of the engine
So back to answering the OP I would say it all depends what car you can get at what price. Turbo back exhaust and FMIC seem pre requisites so factor those in when buying a car or if a car already has them. Then if you use a JCW as base you have little to do manifold and turbo wise or factor in a JCW manifold and JCW Turbo or Stock MCS Turbo with billet compressor wheel.
 

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This subject have been very discussed before. The czar is the only person who have seen both engines and compare them and all the threads with this subject ends with the czar opinion and nothing more.

The czar's engine is from a R55 so as you can see in the realOem, the MCS engine has more than one part numbers and different components, so the R55 has the last MCS engine.

Czar should warning here to this point when he claims that the internals of MCS and JCW are the same.

Czar where can I see a dyno from your car? I'm very curious to see your project.
 

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As a side note though I like how there is still no definitive data on tuning impact of stock R56 internals but everyone is choosing to ignore what was a raging "cheese engine" debate, no one else think this or is it just me?
Yes i was wondering when this would be brought up. When you think how with the R53, aftermarket tuners beat JCW to the market. Why has it taken so long for aftermarket tuners to start playing with the R56. Could it be anything to do with the fact it's a shit Peugeot engine, with an inherent design fault in it?.
 

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Yes i was wondering when this would be brought up. When you think how with the R53, aftermarket tuners beat JCW to the market. Why has it taken so long for aftermarket tuners to start playing with the R56. Could it be anything to do with the fact it's a shit Peugeot engine, with an inherent design fault in it?.
We can use your point of view and see the things from other way. All the aftermarket tuners beat JCW(R53) because the R53 JCW are crap, and the R56 JCW/MCS components are so good that aftermarket tuners cannot do better... (It's not my believe, I'm only show to you the other side of your statment)

You only know if the engine is crap after you try to tune and find this limit. The few people who have tryed, always have reached good power without any problem with it. 1320Mini and Evolve are in the begining yet but until now without major issues.

I believe the answer to your questions, is because most of the company are getting the investment return of the R53 yet and because R56 has a turbo engine. The turbo engine is easiest to tune than and supercharged, even the workshop in your street can get more 20 or 30cv from your car only with a repro, while in a supercharged engine, only good companies can get good results from it.

The investiment/return to a company who invest in R53 is better from one who invest in a R56 engine, so good companies like Evolve, 1320MINI and so on, only have bought a R56 after it reached a affordable value.

The other reason is because in a R53 any extra hp is precious, you will pay 1000 for a big valve head, you will change pulley, exhaust, you need to spend 5000£ to get 50cv and someone you can trust to assemble all the components.

How can you explain to a r56 owner he need to spend 1500£ in a custom head to get 10hp if they can do a repro for 400£ and get 40hp? Or spend the same 1500£ in a new turbo kit and get 100hp?

In the future we can find out that this engine is crap, and no one can tune it, but for now, in my opinion the main reason it is the one I have explained.
 
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