MiniTorque.com banner

1 - 14 of 14 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
173 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hello all, i'm after a bit of advice. Car is a 2011 R56 N18, currently standard.

I want:
More power
Money saved is always nice
Not needing a new clutch (or having to fork out for an upgraded one)

The use:
Only road
No track work
Daily driver

The problem:

The manic map stage 1 seems to give figures between 220bhp and 250bhp. I know at 250bhp and relevant torque, we'll be needing a new clutch.

The question:
Is the Manic stage one even at 220bhp a great buy, does it transform the car? Is the standard intercooler fine? Any Manic stage 1 owners out there care to lend their thoughts?
 

·
MiniTorqueGoesFinland
Joined
·
3,396 Posts
Yes, you'll need a new clutch, as I understood from Lohen that about half the N18s with a map cause clutch slip. And the other half don't last long. Ours lasted maybe 10,000km over 12 months of mostly motorway driving (it wasn't me). And I simply see a bigger IC as a supporting mod, to get you to your headline number. Along with an intake, down pipe etc.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
173 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Yes, you'll need a new clutch, as I understood from Lohen that about half the N18s with a map cause clutch slip. And the other half don't last long. Ours lasted maybe 10,000km over 12 months of mostly motorway driving (it wasn't me). And I simply see a bigger IC as a supporting mod, to get you to your headline number. Along with an intake, down pipe etc.
Would i need a clutch no matter what with a stage 1 then, not even at circa 220bhp? What's the going rate roughly for a clutch change to a suitable aftermarket?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
171 Posts
Has the car jus recently had the oem clutch replaced.? If so it may be ok with stage 1 but imo it all depends on how you drive i have stage 1 manic on mine but also had lohen fit TTV clutch +flywheel as my clutch was on its wat out anyways.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
173 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Has the car jus recently had the oem clutch replaced.? If so it may be ok with stage 1 but imo it all depends on how you drive i have stage 1 manic on mine but also had lohen fit TTV clutch +flywheel as my clutch was on its wat out anyways.
It's quite high currently, car is on 50K and has never had it changed, so i suspect it'll need it. Just that i've been told how much the difference between OEM and upgraded is...

If you don't mind me asking, how much was the TTV clutch and flywheel fitted+parts?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
535 Posts
I've got a Manic Stage 1 on a N18 with no supporting mods. Probably 2 years and about 7000 miles with it...now on about 62k miles and standard clutch as far as I know.

Got just over 200whp which is about 230bhp assuming 15% loss. Only a daily and not driven hard all the time but I've had no issues.
Fully intend to track it in the next month (been saying that for months!) so will get a IC for that...and probs a new clutch shortly after by the sound of it!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
171 Posts
It's quite high currently, car is on 50K and has never had it changed, so i suspect it'll need it. Just that i've been told how much the difference between OEM and upgraded is...

If you don't mind me asking, how much was the TTV clutch and flywheel fitted+parts?

I think it was around £1400-1500 for the kit and labour. Just get the manic map put on and see how it is the oem clutch might still be ok.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,658 Posts
If you replace it with an OEM clutch, you'll get a JCW one. It's what I did on my misses R57 prior to mapping, has been fine running similar power. I chucked in a used R53 LSD while it was all apart anyway.
 

·
#HypocriticalCoiloverCunt
Joined
·
3,303 Posts
If you aren't buying the supporting mods; cold air intake, sports/de cat and intercooler, then you are wasting your money on a remap...

The standard N18 turbo engines have enough power as stock, I personally would spend the £500 you were going to use on a remap, on some coilovers, as the stock suspension is so shit.

If you already have coilovers, then spend it on decent tyres and brakes..
 

·
MiniTorqueGoesFinland
Joined
·
3,396 Posts
I'd say that you need to budget for a decent clutch, as it probably won't last long, but it also depends on how you drive: the car got a new clutch, fly and diff at 42kkm, it was mapped at about 35kkm, and the supporting mods went on about a year and 10kkm before that... We fitted the AEM intake, Akrapovic DP, Airtec FMIC and Ignition Projects coils to the GP2 and the car was dyno'd at 260 before the remap. Who knows what it ran before the mods went on, but it always felt very 'healthy' relative to my 53 (which has all the usual intake, pulley, mani, cam, injectors and remap mods) straight out of the box. Which is probably why the clutch got consumed so quickly. At 42k, the clutch wasn't slipping but it was almost down to the rivets.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
173 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
I've got a Manic Stage 1 on a N18 with no supporting mods. Probably 2 years and about 7000 miles with it...now on about 62k miles and standard clutch as far as I know.

Got just over 200whp which is about 230bhp assuming 15% loss. Only a daily and not driven hard all the time but I've had no issues.
Fully intend to track it in the next month (been saying that for months!) so will get a IC for that...and probs a new clutch shortly after by the sound of it!
This is what i was after hearing. I think i'm aiming for the same thing. Thank you.

I think it was around £1400-1500 for the kit and labour. Just get the manic map put on and see how it is the oem clutch might still be ok.
Sounds like a plan.

If you replace it with an OEM clutch, you'll get a JCW one. It's what I did on my misses R57 prior to mapping, has been fine running similar power. I chucked in a used R53 LSD while it was all apart anyway.
Perfect, thank you.

If you aren't buying the supporting mods; cold air intake, sports/de cat and intercooler, then you are wasting your money on a remap...

The standard N18 turbo engines have enough power as stock, I personally would spend the £500 you were going to use on a remap, on some coilovers, as the stock suspension is so shit.

If you already have coilovers, then spend it on decent tyres and brakes..
It's been bought from a very well cared for home and currently needs for nothing maintenance wise. Fresh tyres, brakes are new etc. I'm not going full CAI and intercooler because moneys have to go on other things as we're expecting :thumbup::thumbup:

Suspension again, best to keep that as is due to reasons above. The remap is only to give it a bit more really.

Now, if i ever get another daily (company car) then the real Mini adventure would begin...

I'd say that you need to budget for a decent clutch, as it probably won't last long, but it also depends on how you drive: the car got a new clutch, fly and diff at 42kkm, it was mapped at about 35kkm, and the supporting mods went on about a year and 10kkm before that... We fitted the AEM intake, Akrapovic DP, Airtec FMIC and Ignition Projects coils to the GP2 and the car was dyno'd at 260 before the remap. Who knows what it ran before the mods went on, but it always felt very 'healthy' relative to my 53 (which has all the usual intake, pulley, mani, cam, injectors and remap mods) straight out of the box. Which is probably why the clutch got consumed so quickly. At 42k, the clutch wasn't slipping but it was almost down to the rivets.
I'm not surprised the clutch went with that!! I have been lurking following your builds and that GP2 is an absolute weapon.


Anyone have any experience with CLP Tuning in Sheffield? I know the normal recomendations are Lohen, 1320, Millsy etc. but CLP are the closest for me and are Manic agents with a dyno?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,149 Posts
you're not going to get good coilovers for £500, either get the right stuff or leave it until you can. I can put you on custom coils for £1440 sprung and valve'd for your car, rebound adjustable, camber adjustable, Swift springs included. Or to your spring weight specified if you want. In fact if you get your car weighed I can custom weight the springs to suit and custom valve them. Even if you bought Meisters and fitted better springs they'd be more than that and the valving will still be wrong. Just sayin'. If I had one of these a remap is the first thing I'd be thinking about, I wouldn't be able to help it haha. The second would be a light flywheel, aluminium if I could find one, and an ACT clutch or Helix maybe if they make them for these, or if putting money into it maybe Exedy or Giken. I haven't looked. Add an ATB LSD which there are now two options for that have no wear parts, a lifetime guarantee one is £840 which puts more than the Quaife to the ground in a wheel slip situation, with a transferrable warranty. This will get it to the wheels then when you are closer to the weight you're going to remain at, fit the coils mentioned. If you have a map you don't have to give a car full beans everywhere from low rpm to get it quick, I'd do the intake before exhaust if I did add those changes fwiw.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
221 Posts
I can put you on custom coils for £1440 sprung and valve'd for your car, rebound adjustable, camber adjustable, Swift springs included. Or to your spring weight specified if you want. In fact if you get your car weighed I can custom weight the springs to suit and custom valve them. Even if you bought Meisters and fitted better springs they'd be more than that and the valving will still be wrong. Just sayin'.
There's a lot more information required for custom valving and spring rates than just the vehicle weight. Off the shelf solutions that have been developed with the use of 4 post rigs, and proven on the road and circuits around the world will be much more suitable than anything you've described above.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,149 Posts
There's a lot more information required for custom valving and spring rates than just the vehicle weight. Off the shelf solutions that have been developed with the use of 4 post rigs, and proven on the road and circuits around the world will be much more suitable than anything you've described above.
No, it won't be really. Yes there's a lot more info required if you're building a damper from scratch but I haven't posted about that. Nobody cares about motion ratio, tyre/wheel rate, damper length, stroke/rate, progressive, linear, or digressive valve profiles, progressive vs linear springs, sprung or un-sprung weight, wheel centre line, tire size, and anti roll bar size on here when buying coilovers, not really, just wheel gap and group buys haha.

Lets just assume the kit I'm offering has similar design and development, r&d information or more to hand as perhaps better quality (perceived) Chinese, South Korean, or Taiwanese kit when building what I am talking about, so just the same type of dampers many people are already using but that these are tuned, having better valving and springs which are then dyno'd for accuracy at the factory.

Some of the kits available don't have a valving profile tuned for the spring attached or the car it's on for example, you might think otherwise but in the main they don't have such information displayed in any ad for their kit or even in the box if provided, therefore some users simply don't know, there is no dyno information and purchasing is based on trust or assumption if it's even considered. If some were taken off and dyno'd, the operator, similar to a rolling road scenario with a cheap generic map for fuelling and ignition, may tell the owners that the profile is wrong. While on that subject, I can have such Taiwanese rebuildable dampers rebuilt, so repaired, serviced, and upgraded.

You completely jumped the gun here really, my post was merely a reply to a suggestion to fit £500 coilovers and you had nothing to say about that. Maybe back up your post with details of kit you do know about that's in my price bracket perhaps? It will be interesting and every day is a school day, even if intricate detail on damper manufacture isn't what was being discussed.

In my own opinion, a tailored damper for a specific requirement, or that which is valve'd and dyno'd for a different spring fitted, or just valve'd to the correct profile is without doubt better than a random set chosen from the array of 4,5,6,7,8kg spring rated kit, valve'd sometimes using a generic valving profile maybe not actually for the car it's going on. Even corner weighting on such kit that isn't valve'd right or dyno'd isn't going to give an equal left/right or front/rear performance, it might look ok on the screen and the owners feel good about it, and those that don't know expect the car will handle better and may be it does, but the damping can be inaccurate. People would feel better for sure if the corner weights plus the damping rates were balanced most likely realised when it's actually been done, rather than read about.

I'm no suspension guru, certainly not a scientist, but having driven or fitted things over time that's my2p, you don't have to buy into it, and if you need proof or are curious, get your current applicable dampers serviced @ £120 a corner plus wear parts and post/pack etc. If a high performance biker is reading they might relate to similar set up, preload, comp, rebound, static and rider sag and spring, shock or cartridge swaps and what the bike can be like before it's set right. You can't fall off a car. This stuff is less apparent to most drivers, but is a similar principle, in my experience ;O)

I can do a pit stop swap if you have OEM kit to fit or I can lend you some. YCW are factory dyno'd on the same Roerhig equipment as Penske or Ohlins use. Servicing is in the U.K. and kit is built to order, also in the U.K.
 
1 - 14 of 14 Posts
Top