MiniTorque.com banner

1 - 19 of 19 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I picked up my an R53 Mini JCW a few weeks ago so I've finally had time to have a bit of a look and start thinking about getting bits fixed, improved, upgraded etc. So first thing I've noticed is that it rattles on start-up quite loudly. However the noise goes away completely when I press the clutch in. After a few minutes, when the car is warmed up, the noise gets a lot less but still noticeable when idling in neutral, however when I press the clutch it disappears again. I've also noticed the gearchange can be a little reluctant and crunchy at first but again improves as the car warms up.

So after having a read through some threads, I'm thinking a few possibilities

1. Timing Chain tensioner although the fact it goes away when I press the clutch plus the difficult gear change might suggest it's not this?
2. Clutch release bearing
3. Dual Mass flywheel

I've got it booked in at 1320 for a general checkover and replace clutch if required but that's still 6 weeks away as they are busy. Just wondering if I can be sure one way or the other before then and more importantly, whether it's OK to drive the car with this issue.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,244 Posts
It will almost certainly be the DMF, when they replace clutch & DMF the release bearing will also be changed, so the difference should be immediate.

It is fine to drive as it is.

Is the clutch heavy at all?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Yes the clutch feels a bit heavy. If it's the DMF I can't see too many options on the 1320 website, seems to be TTV or nothing which seems a bit pricey. Think I might give them a call on Monday to discuss options.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Clutch is an expensive labour job, do it once do it right. The TTV is a good upgrade.
I'd usually agree but I've still got wheels\tyres and coilovers to think about and I'm trying to stick to some semblance of a sensible budget. :)

Plus it's got 200'ish already I'm not looking for an increase in power so don't need to massively overspec the clutch. Doesn't seem to be too many mid level options out there though. It's either standard parts or the full on expensive options. :unsure:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Just doing some more reading and it seems to be quite a minefield.

1. Luk clutch and OEM DMF. (stock)
2. Value kit with flywheel. Cheap and cheerful but seem to some reservations
3. Luk Clutch with TVV. This is what 1320 offer but seems to be issues with the clutch being unsprung. 1320 say it's fine, other people seem to say it's not.
4. Helix organic clutch with flywheel.

1320 are my closest specialist and seem to have a good rep but on clutches it seems they don't have too many options and are recommending something which might not be 100% right. However unless I want to travel quite far, I'm kind of limited by the choices they offer.

Don't really have the time to go mixing and matching various bits of drivetrain but this is probably the biggest investment I'll make in this car so want to get it right. Unfortunately it seems no one offers a complete kit that does it all properly.
 

·
Registered
2005 R53
Joined
·
116 Posts
Option 3 with sprung plate? I thought there was an option of one that fits, it's what I'm planning on fitting over the winter.

Make sure you do the rear main seal at the same time!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,649 Posts
I'd usually agree but I've still got wheels\tyres and coilovers to think about and I'm trying to stick to some semblance of a sensible budget. :)

Plus it's got 200'ish already I'm not looking for an increase in power so don't need to massively overspec the clutch. Doesn't seem to be too many mid level options out there though. It's either standard parts or the full on expensive options. :unsure:
You can chuck wheels and coilovers on any time. Atm you have a clutch issue that needs addressing and as before is labour intensive, buy cheap buy twice. Pointless chucking something cheap in for the sake of it now and wishing you'd gone another route later.

I ran the helix organic with lightweight flywheel. It is a heavy clutch for daily driving but takes power well and revs nicely. And yes, I'm sure there is a sprung option.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,806 Posts
It's the clutch release bearing causing the chatter. It's not harmful afaik. Had this on two clutches fitted by BMW. 1320 fitted the last one two or three years ago and no release bearing noise ever since. Crunching could just be gear linkage cables are shot.
 

·
Registered
2005 R53
Joined
·
116 Posts
Worth double checking your slave cylinder too, as they are a known weak point - if it's leaking or a little air in the system it might not engage the clutch properly.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,538 Posts
standard clutch and dmf in decent quality is still several hundred pounds, decent means OEM quality, so LUK cover and disc which are original on these anyway, although the BMW original kit has an SKF bearing,

ignore the Valeo smf conversion imo as you lose a load of your friction surface and are tied to Valeo replacement clutches from then on, although loads may have them and like them. Valeo are still an OEM supplier for the R56 or R60 etc but this conversion is a cheap 'get out' that's all, to free you from a dmf, it is NOT as some claim, an upgrade of any sort whatsoever, there just happens to be a passive weight saving and that's it.

TTV flywheels are not actually that great. The starter tooth profile on the ring gear is incorrect really, and will wear prematurely as well as affect your starter from install point onwards, irrespective of who or how many have them and like them, unless they'd seen the wear they wouldn't likely accept there was a problem. The the starter engagement is slightly noisy as a result which is a clue, also the part has no renewable elements so it's not a permanent solution but this is only my view, it might last for years yet it will most likely display the above early on.

you can run a fixed disc in an smf but they are snatchy, they're not recommended at all but you can use them, just buy the Helix organic disc and utilise the rest of the LUK kit imo.

the 'go to' flywheel option in my view is the GTT aluminium part which takes a stock cover and can use the Helix disc, it has renewable parts and a good ring gear tooth profile, and dowels that can't work their way out as well as having better friction surface fixings imo. I've personally run these still with the stock cover all the way from near stock power to over 250whp without a hint of any slip, even with the extremes of use combined with a dog box on road and track, I can't fault the combination so far. Few would need anything more, the performance clutch kits out there ACT, Helix, FX stuff etc might suit more aggressive launches and so on, but for normal use of the clutch an OEM cover works perfectly well really. You don't need a paddle clutch or ceramic/sintered stuff, these all have increased pedal effort and can snatch.

the light flywheels aren't power adders as such but will change shift quality and free the engine to spin up better, and increase engine braking, you lose some degree of torque retention. A little consequential noise is normal as they can't damp out engine pulses from the transmission with the clutch engaged as the dmf can, so one can hear a bit more chatter at idle and some noise on overrun sometimes, dependent on how sensitive you are perhaps to such sounds, they're harmless.

someone said it's ok to run the car with a suspected dmf issue or release bearing....... in my opinion it is not really. Some degree of release bearing wear is alright for a time but with audible and mechanical symptoms including a heavy clutch as it is, you're possibly better advised to resolve this asap. You're already experiencing clutch drag by the sounds of it which affects synchro's over time, one can suffer collapsed release bearings which also happens, they're only a plastic body pre-greased for life, the clutch being heavy is pressure plate related usually which strains the vulnerable aged bearings, or then if it is the flywheel causing your noise which is possible when you mention it is on start up for example, then you'll likely have a fairly severe imbalance which will both affect performance and also load your crank even more, as will your heavy clutch for all the time it has been, which will amplify any loads on the small crankshaft thrust washers every time you press the clutch, risking an increase to end float etc, especially if you or the previous users are habitual clutch holders at junctions.

So how long you run it like this is up to you. I don't really care who would disagree with the above, I'm just pointing out other stuff most don't see or think about. It might be worst case but it's relevant nonetheless ;O)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rusco_9

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Thanks, some very informative and useful info. However the problem I'm going to have is

A) Buying all the bits separately, so LUK\OEM kit, Helix kit and GTT flywheel.

B) Convincing 1320 or someone else to put it all together.

Yes it sounds like a very good setup but I think trying to explain and get someone to do it might be a tad more difficult. This is why I'm looking for an "off the shelf" product that works well without being overkill like a paddle or competition clutch which will be OTT and not very suitable for mostly road use.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Anyone heard of or got any experience of Competition Cluctches? Got recommended them by Oranje but I've seen them in lots of other places too

Competition Clutch

About £660-£800 depending on which stage you go for and they come with a lightened flywheel in that price. Reading the blurb, they seem like a decent upgrade over stock without being too OTT.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
That price on the Competion clutch includes the SMF. Helix clutch with SMF is about £850 from what I've seen. That gets you a stage 4 Competition clutch and SMF from the link I've shown with change. A stage 2 Competion Clutch is about £200 less. I still need to shop around and see if I can get discounts. If I can get that price difference down on the Helix, I may still go for it but my thinking is why pay £200 more if the comp clutch is a decent enough upgrade over stock when I'm only running about 200bhp. This is supposed to me my cheap fun car. 🙂
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,538 Posts
the GTT wheel is easy to get direct, the disc you can get from Lohen as GTT now don't want to sell the things separately because they want to sell full kits, and the LUK kit from ECP etc. These items are all designed to work together and they do.... perfectly.

I doubt 1320 would have any issue installing this combination, they already use LUK, and Helix iirc, so the wheel isn't going to be an issue as it's a top quality item and plenty in use, and apart from the potential for light surface marks being acquired in use over time (being alloy), I've to date not become aware of any flaws save for the known light smf chatter etc as already mentioned.

otherwise there is a straightforward OEM/LUK full standard kit which will still work for most fast road cars if your flywheel is in fact knackered. Really I suppose some might only recognise the benefits of halving this weight once done, personally I'd encourage anyone looking to use the cars in a much more spirited way to consider this type of upgrade albeit costly.

Alternatively if wanting to save money on it, perhaps just pick up a used wheel and go with that, contrary to common belief they can be reused successfully, especially if from an car that hasn't led an abused life, few would choose this option if relying on garage services really but worth a mention.

I guess you have to remember that vendors or specialists will wish to sell or install only what they choose to stock, some will put down other brands to do this, some won't.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,538 Posts
if you're only running 200hp you have zero reason to upgrade the clutch itself really (imo) unless you're one that likes to launch the car, only the weight saving is what you're going to notice, and that's partly still dependent on your use.

personally if you're serious about sticking to this power level you may as well just stick with stock seeing as you're trying to keep costs down also.

Competition Clutches early on had some problems and contracted CG Motorsports to rework them as I understand it, CG design and manufacture their own and also have kits which are typically less than others but I have no direct experience of using them. There are a few on here I believe running CC setups. CG have twin plate options etc with very light flywheels which is on my list to explore sometime, but still, 200hp you need nothing like this, as above, your advantage will be coming from weight saving but not necessarily of immense value if you're only going to be driving the car pretty much normally with a few overtakes on a Sunday hoon or something, for that save your money and spend it on a cam with custom tuning and a good manifold.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 · (Edited)
I'm planning to do the occasional track day, maybe 3 or 4 a year and I do like to press on on the road too so an upgraded clutch and lightened fly wheel does appeal. Just looking for middle of the range options tbh, something better than stock but not full on £1k+ race clutch which won't be nice to use on the road anyway.

I'll have a chat with 1320 and see what they are comfortable installing, as you say some are a bit reluctant installing kit they haven't sold you. Maybe discuss the hybrid option or if not see if I can get some more feedback on the CC's or a better price on the Helix+flywheel combo.

It's got the JCW tuning kit so I guess running something around 200-210bhp and I have no great urge to increase power at the moment as it's enough for now. I'll be doing brakes, suspension and tyres anyway before I even think about going near the engine.
 
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
Top