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Discussion Starter #1
So after doing a bit of reading I've gathered that the most restrictive part of a Cooper S head is the exhaust valves and associated ports? Now my end result would be a nice, quick, reliable and drivable car with a nice stable ish idle but unlike the standard car doesn't get all out of puff in the upper rev range.
Now I'm not up for putting a head on that some geezer has 'ported' in his shed with a Dremel, nor do I believe I need to go full bore Lohen £2k+ BVH. So was looking into possibly a GTT head with bigger exhaust valves, ported, with a matched inlet manifold. Think these weigh in at around £1k iirc so I can send my 'charger down for a rebuild at the same time. (y) Cam wise was initially going to go with Newman cams PH2 but after seeing one for sale... and it's condition (granted don't know it's mileage or if the engine has been run short of oil) I'm now tempted towards a Cat Cams 461.
Supporting mods will be intake, 4-2-1+200cell, TMIC, -15%, more than likely 380's then dyno time.

For road use would this be a good combo? I'm thinking a CC469 might be a bit of overkill and poss a full BVH to? Any help appreciated. TIA. Andy.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Luke.
Is the JCW head just ported or does it come with larger valves? And still the Newman? Going off pics I've seen I'd be worried about where the bits are going! :cry:
 

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^what he said. The '469' can be made idle nicely, but there will be hiccups. And remember that the stock intake is already a cold air intake...

Also, forget the "200cell". Use the stock cat with that 4-2-1, it isn't a restriction and will last longer.
Surprised about the cat, I'd of thought that's where some restriction came from. The big difference is obviously the primaries. Read a lot about that 469 in a post I think carsorbikes either put up or was heavily involved in. Sounds more like a race cam, comes on later, likes the revs....
 

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JCW head has larger exhaust ports but standard valves. It's a budget option.

There was a bad batch of Newman cams at some point (pre-2012?). Carsorbikes will sell you a good one.

I have the '469' on mine (with RMW BVH). It makes good power through the rev range, but doesn't really shine in everyday stop-and-go traffic, and it takes time and effort to tune the idle. But if you like to live above 5000rpm, then it's a cam for you. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #7
JCW head has larger exhaust ports but standard valves. It's a budget option.

There was a bad batch of Newman cams at some point (pre-2012?). Carsorbikes will sell you a good one.

I have the '469' on mine (with RMW BVH). It makes good power through the rev range, but doesn't really shine in everyday stop-and-go traffic, and it takes time and effort to tune the idle. But if you like to live above 5000rpm, then it's a cam for you. :)
Think he's aiming for penetration over on my injector thread tbh ? A good 20 years ago now I had an RS2000 (MK2) 2.1 BVH, huge cam, 4-2-1 with a Janspeed or similar and a pair of 48's strapped to the side of it.... now that was unfriendly round town! Epic fun round roundabouts though! :cool:
I'm a bit more mechanically sympathetic these days so 5000rpm I'd be thinking about changing up...…. unless the horns were out of course. :devilish:
 

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Yeah, why waste time on a tested and proven JCW head when you could buy an £800 ported head from an unknown seller with no known history, testing or dyno graphs to show for it (y)
You are not selling a JCW head by chance are you? ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Ph2 Cam and this - BMW Mini Cooper S Ported Cylinder Head 'as new' | tbmotorsport
Should be around £1000 mark and perfect for the road. All new stuff. Don't waste time on JCW head if your budget is £1K.
Nice web page..... yours? Liking the old motors. (y) I didn't say my budget was £1k more that a £2k+ BVH might be deemed a tad excessive for a daily. And if your gonna pair it up with a cam to make the most of it a bit of a maul round town.
 

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469, but I wanted power and it was a track car. This seemed to be the tried and tested route of everybody. Having tried it though, if I was doing a daily I would possibly try the JCW head with a Newman and injectors first and save myself the money on the map, but then equally I think the map is probably a huge chunk of where the benefit lies. Especially in terms of power delivery
 

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you can be at 245hp with the stock head with a 17% and a fast road cam and custom map with 550cc injectors plus a manifold which will support the cam, 270hp+ with the right head and good (eg JCW210) intake and a manifold, if the engine is in good order including the cooling system if wanting reliability.

250 is possible with a JCW210 having a fast road cam, 550's custom mapped and a 17% with a manifold, easily replicated on a non JCW,

mild cams worth having are Newman PH1/2, Catcam 1302461 neither need a map, Schrick also works well.

215+ is possible with a mild cam, an 11% and custom map with an intake,

fast road cams worth having are Newman PH2, my EW02, Catcam 1302469 which needs a map, EW02 needs 50-100rpm, it and the PH2 would be better if custom mapped

mildly ported heads will support the above fast road cams or the next step still fairly modestly ported with larger exhaust valves can have significant benefits

more aggressive cams with higher lift and longer duration like the Newman PH3/4 or other Catcams and a custom option or two will like heads with more aggressive porting and bigger in & ex valves and have to be mapped to get anything really good out, Ideally with better valve springs and caps which would also support the EW02 and 469. The 469 might work in these heads but not quite enough imo, in fact they're likely to cost power. I lost 20 in one test. Likewise such cams in a lesser head can be restricted.

your best outcome would be staying with a larger pulley and making the rest of the power with a fast road cam and a custom map, stock or GP IC, enclosed intake, raised rpm, up to you on the head options, JCW or other. There is a significant difference in JCW vs stock exhaust port sizes, see below. Pulleys bring IAT and cams do not. Then halve the flywheel weight and shorten the final drive. It'll get the car there quicker while getting you over the weak end of the cam faster transforming any car, then add an ATB diff.

Everyone has their own idea of ideal spec, or 'quick', Mini's historically have always employed the use of gearing options, as they are the replacement for displacement.

I run a 17% pulley and am open about the fact it's a step too far because of the heat it brings, nothing new there, but it doesn't have such a huge detrimental affect on power transmitted to the road with my car really because of the affect the F/D or gearing has, giving improved response with lighter throttle inputs etc, with overall performance significantly amplified by leverage/thrust it gives, if I had more for longer as above which will probably first happen in the form of a 15% it'd still be fun.... if I do it.

A de-cat or 200cpi cat when custom mapped in my opinion are worth doing, I use a de-cat and have for years but also do have a Maniflow 200cpi cat to fit if I ever settle on a spec, I might add it after I've had this combination run up to see where we're at but like how it is.

Lohen have three head spec options, porting only, ex only, or in & ex, the £2k one is the bigger inlet and exhaust with more aggressive porting the same as what I've had for sale. Like with intercoolers, intakes, exhausts, bigger is not always better.

Elsewhere people talk about JCW heads having to have a red spot and additional numbers, I wouldn't rely on that as this is one that no such markings and speaks for itself.

99203
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Wow! you can physically see the difference in port size, no wonder if flows better, even with standard valves. Combine that with a little bit more lift and duration over a standard cam..... decent gains! Are the valve guides standard length on the JCW heads or have they been 'trimmed' to suite the porting?
Seems I'm now 'Arthur-King of the Britton's' and am seeking the Holy Grail ?
Presume your EW02 cam has a bit more duration than the Newman hence the need to lift tickover by a couple hundred rpm?
And exhaust side, when this corona is all over is Scorpion 4-2-1 with 200 cell and either scorpion or Miltek cat back and get rid of this ebay special that's on it atm.
You had any dealings with the mod-a-mini/ Robert Cox engineering cylinder heads? ( if I can't get a JCW one)
 

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guides are the same.

yes mine has a greater inlet duration, less exhaust,

Robert Cox heads look alright as far as shiny ported heads go but because heads are so very different performance wise who knows what will be good, not all views are positive. There is a lot of opinion over hand ported vs CNC which affects many buying decisions, personally the best heads I've used have been hand ported and finished, but I haven't used loads of different heads so again it's another opinion. Slark cylinder head preparation or Bryan Slark Racing have done all my classic Mini heads, and Tritec heads I have are Lohen, Allstage, Cosworth, JCW, the current one being Allstage, otherwise known on here as Shed. As I've said before it isn't all in the head, and other people's views come into play making it a hornets nest overall with few sound solutions perhaps.

The current head with stock inlet size and bigger exhaust made 230whp @7.2k with my cam and 233whp @ 7.6k with the 1302469 Catcam, and 234whp @ 8.16k with the Newman PH3/4, when my cam was run up I didn't have this custom Maniflow manifold so the cam is back in waiting to be run up again, I'm expecting could be 235whp+ but overall the Allstage head works very well. On its own responsible for a 14whp gain with my cam. I'm only interested to see if it recovers the ~2hp loss to the 469 in the upper midrange which I suspect it had due to the manifold maybe but we'll see.

A thing with heads is also that you can have several from the same place and one stand out which fuels an argument for CNC, but the counter argument might be that castings differ, meaning CNC can have the same or similar variances in performance, additionally a taping service if offered for a CNC head is hand finishing anyway, so back to the hand ported head at least for me. Cosworth heads there is a fair amount of negative feedback for especially in the US as it was Cosworth USA that did them, and the view is they don't make that much, but a lot of this is about the combination I think, definitely I would say having experience of the affects this can produce, there is no rule to get this right especially with a head produced to a spec you have to find a cam for, really the cam and usage would be better given to the head prep company so they can tailor the head and valves or springs and valve geometry etc. Again, only my view fwiw.

the JCW head above will be added to 'fitted only' parts I occasionally sell, just like the Lohen BVH,
 
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guides are the same.

yes mine has a greater inlet duration, less exhaust,

Robert Cox heads look alright as far as shiny ported heads go but because heads are so very different performance wise who knows what will be good, not all views are positive. There is a lot of opinion over hand ported vs CNC which affects many buying decisions, personally the best heads I've used have been hand ported and finished, but I haven't used loads of different heads so again it's another opinion. Slark cylinder head preparation or Bryan Slark Racing have done all my classic Mini heads, and Tritec heads I have are Lohen, Allstage, Cosworth, JCW, the current one being Allstage, otherwise known on here as Shed. As I've said before it isn't all in the head, and other people's views come into play making it a hornets nest overall with few sound solutions perhaps.

The current head with stock inlet size and bigger exhaust made 230whp @7.2k with my cam and 233whp @ 7.6k with the 1302469 Catcam, and 234whp @ 8.16k with the Newman PH3/4, when my cam was run up I didn't have this custom Maniflow manifold so the cam is back in waiting to be run up again, I'm expecting could be 235whp+ but overall the Allstage head works very well. On its own responsible for a 14whp gain with my cam. I'm only interested to see if it recovers the ~2hp loss to the 469 in the upper midrange which I suspect it had due to the manifold maybe but we'll see.

A thing with heads is also that you can have several from the same place and one stand out which fuels an argument for CNC, but the counter argument might be that castings differ, meaning CNC can have the same or similar variances in performance, additionally a taping service if offered for a CNC head is hand finishing anyway, so back to the hand ported head at least for me. Cosworth heads there is a fair amount of negative feedback for especially in the US as it was Cosworth USA that did them, and the view is they don't make that much, but a lot of this is about the combination I think, definitely I would say having experience of the affects this can produce, there is no rule to get this right especially with a head produced to a spec you have to find a cam for, really the cam and usage would be better given to the head prep company so they can tailor the head and valves or springs and valve geometry etc. Again, only my view fwiw.

the JCW head above will be added to 'fitted only' parts I occasionally sell, just like the Lohen BVH,
What's an allstage 'shed' head? Never came across them before?

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