MiniTorque.com banner

FEBI / STOCK REPLACEMENT OR CRAVENSPEED LIGHTWEIGHT - I cant afford a superdamper at the moment.

  • Cravensped know their shit : Buy one

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • IVE GOT A BETTER SOLUTION (If so then please message me)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
1 - 20 of 24 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Good evening mini enthusiasts:

Im probably just going to cause trouble but every other post ive seen seems to ignore Craven Speeds argument: CravenSpeed Lightened & Enlarged Crank Pulley

'This pulley is safe to use even though you are swapping from a ‘damped’ pulley to a single mass, solid pulley. The elastomer (rubber ring that looks similar to a harmonic damper) in the OEM pulley acts as an isolator to suppress natural vibration and noise from the engine itself. A traditional harmonic damping pulley would have been designed to protect against crank failure from torsional movement but CravenSpeed has researched the need for this and found it to be unnecessary in the MINI engine because of advances in engine design and materials. You can fit this part with confidence.'

Are they saying that the original pulleys use not infact dampened like eveybody thinks they are ? Thats just how it came across to me.
-Im going to shoot them an email.

----------------------------------------------
Im doing a whole renewal of the belt assembly on my car and have been looking into the lightweight cranks: I didnt really want to increase my cars performance until its been fully cleaned up but whilst im in there it seems cost effective to do this now.


Its silly to take risks so i have a febi replacement and a normal belt on the way unil i can afford a superdamper etc but if these craven speed ones are as reliable as they claim thenI believe i would be able to add a +2% oversized one of these and a 5% alternator pullley and not have to do a tune.
Also giving me the option to add a 15% reduced pulley (And all the supporting mods) in future with the only sunk cost being the different sized belt.



Its my daily driver and only car so it gets driven carefuly but i live on country lanes that are full of pot holes so belt slip and crank walk prevention is a priority over performance.

Thankyou for taking the time to read this. I do really appreciate it 🙌❤
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Cravenspeed are saying that a dampened pulley is not needed.

It's up to you what you fit.
Yes i understand that.

My query is that cravenspeed are saying even the original ones (OEM/ Ones that come on the car originally) are undampened ? so by addidng another undampened one (e.g a lightweight cravenspeed crank) its actually making no difference over the original ones.

Something like an ATI Superdamper is just an additional precaution that mini themselves didnt feel the need to take.

Thats atleast how its coming across to me : Im hoping someone can either confirm or dispell this belief 🙌
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
113 Posts
I read that Cravenspeed are saying that the original pulley is dampened, all be it in a differing manner to others.
That's how I read it too, that the original is dampened, however Cravenspeed have conducted research and find that the OEM design is not necessary and thus theirs can be used safely. IMO Lohen generally know what they're talking about and selling.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,538 Posts
Cravenspeed research? I'll take OEM development fwiw.

The OEM crank pulley is dampened, revised completely on the facelift cars,

a couple of suppliers claim there is no need for the OEM type, Kavs iirc, GTT, and the above,

There is no 100% evidence to support the reasons not to but fwiw some are written about attributing consequences or failures to the use of them, whether anyone accepts this is up to them, personally I remain apprehensive.

if the reason the 53 uses a damped pulley vs the N/A car it's probably that it is dragging a charger around adding a very significant additional torsional load, I guess this perhaps amplifies the affect of engine pulses on the crank nose driving this weighted setup, or even additional load on the belt drive just doing so if any run out it might have is amplified by the torsional weight of the charger added, or balance of the driven items, belt irregularity etc, two way street kind of thing, food for thought possibly....

it's known that the use of a SMF changes the sound though the transmission due to engine pulses no longer being damped, here it affects nothing really imo other than some concern perhaps other people express that gear chatter is accelerating wear somewhere which I personally doubt, also at this end the drive is transmitted from the crank centrally. I think someone would have a hard time convincing me at least, that the same or similar wasn't likely to occur at the other end regarding amplified engine pulses one way or the other should the damper be removed or changed to one maybe doing less of it, especially when this end is not centre loaded,

on these motors the two main bearings wearing the most ime, or three sometimes are 5, 1, and 3 in that order it seems. The oil pump design on the Tritec is the rotor type which the crank nose passes through, on the back of the timing cover the pump is part of, not immediately next to the damper fitment location but close, and before the timing chain lower sprocket which is in front of the first bearing, so there is a bit of distance between the applied belt load and the first bearing whether considered relevant or not, I'm just saying it's there and perhaps shouldn't be ignored.
WP_20201028_081.jpg

I'm a little cautious about the use of these lighter pulleys because a) like others have suggested in the past I believe it has potential for an adverse affect on the oil pump which has very brittle rotors and I've seen several cracked as it is, b) that the lack of the damper could also have a limited but possibly still exaggerated detrimental affect on the first bearing, you may think that impossible perhaps however cranks do flex hence the more main bearings the better.

I can't prove either, they're just my own reservations thinking about the engine layout and what stuff does, how stuff already wears, and awareness of the affects of lightening the back end weight and transmission plus other affects of weight on rotating parts etc. Add to this a likely very limited gain from weight saving at this end, also any affect potentially of increasing pulley diameter, my own conclusion is that it's not a good idea and I'll still avoid them.

online vendors knowing what they're talking about? Their primary concern is shifting boxes, they usually always repeat manufacturers text on their websites not usually their own experienced views or advice imo. They'll sell you anything they think you're interested in whether right for you or not, that's all they're there for really. Cynical yet imo true ;O)
 
  • Like
Reactions: JKo and Mysticarl

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,538 Posts
re cheaper original style dampers, I can't say which might lead to this but some may go on and never come off,

this was such a part.... the OEM tool bolts to remove it just ripped out of it leading to it needing to be cut off, they have tolerance issues, the same as the PRW aftermarket performance damper I've also experienced with a forum member, the press tool gets them on alright (in a fashion) but there is a much greater effort required when a tighter fit, to extract them later.... not good.

WP_20200405_001.jpg

for me personally, OEM and ATI performance options haven't yet led here fwiw
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,006 Posts
100% agree with CarsOrBikes.

I used to have an undampened Kavs crank pulley (100% identical to that Cravenspeed one it seems...) on my car for about 40,000km, and while I haven't opened the engine to check it for wear, it certainly hasn't exploded on me. I did check the oil pump when I did the timing chain tho, and it was ok. What the lightened pulley did do compared to a dampened one, was that it added noise and made idle more rough (with a Catcam). Also the damper on the s/c belt tensioner used to jump about quite violently with the Kavs pulley.

Having a PRW fluid damper on the car now, the engine just feels a lot smoother. But it was a PITA to install, and I haven't heard many success stories about removing it in one piece...
 

·
Registered
2005 R52 One Convertible (The Smoker)
Joined
·
817 Posts
OE or bust for me. They last plenty long enough and are there to do a job, as others say if BMW but a dampened pulley on there was a reason for it.

Im also not overly mad on really overdriving the stock SC as beyond 15% IMHO the losses begin to ourweigh the gains.....more wear, more heat, take the SC beyond its useful efficiency etc.....17% for example tends to provide a bit more power and torque across the low and mid ranges but less so at the top end. 15% with a cam, decent injectors and a map is the way forward I think, or just a fast road cam otherwise....nigh on the hp of the pulley, with better top end performance and none of the heat 👍
 

·
Bugger
Joined
·
25,414 Posts
You couldn’t pay me to risk putting an un-dampened crank pulley on an R53.
 

·
MIN-Tily Challenged
Joined
·
7,892 Posts
What is the gain against the potential pain... ?

I ran all sorts of “silly“ pulley ratios from 17 to 21 on standard damper from 10k to 144k
what did I miss by not going light or ati super damper ?

I have no idea ?
But I do know it never cost me a single penny more or any reliability by staying stock...
and stock is good for 280hp, and 130k miles. So sounds likely that both of these numbers will be outside your expectations (y)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Yes i understand that , i just want to know what it is that im fitting.

My query is that cravenspeed are saying even the original ones (OEM/ Ones that come on the car originally) are undampened ? so by addidng another undampened one (e.g a lightweight cravenspeed crank) its actually making no difference over the original ones.

Something like an ATI Superdamper is just an additional precaution that mini themselves didnt feel the need to take.
'This pulley is safe to use even though you are swapping from a ‘damped’ pulley to a single mass, solid pulley. The elastomer (rubber ring that looks similar to a harmonic damper) in the OEM pulley acts as an isolator to suppress natural vibration and noise from the engine itself. A traditional harmonic damping pulley would have been designed to protect against crank failure from torsional movement but CravenSpeed has researched the need for this and found it to be unnecessary in the MINI engine because of advances in engine design and materials. You can fit this part with confidence.'
re cheaper original style dampers, I can't say which might lead to this but some may go on and never come off,

this was such a part.... the OEM tool bolts to remove it just ripped out of it leading to it needing to be cut off, they have tolerance issues, the same as the PRW aftermarket performance damper I've also experienced with a forum member, the press tool gets them on alright (in a fashion) but there is a much greater effort required when a tighter fit, to extract them later.... not good.

View attachment 103758

for me personally, OEM and ATI performance options haven't yet led here fwiw
Due to my situation im just going to buy one of these, i havent had any bad experiences with febi yet and ill hopefully only need it for a year or 2:
Crankshaft Pulley Fits Mini Cooper S Works R52 R53 OE 11237525135 Febi 104929 4054224049297 | eBay

My thinking is that unless you have the money to happily repair the damage a solid lightened one may cause its not worth the risk..
 

·
Bugger
Joined
·
25,414 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Corteco is the OE supplier for these.

Good lord.

Can buy a whole mini for that : Mini cooper 1.6 | eBay
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,538 Posts
don't know about the Corteco thing but fitting whatever if not the trusted fitment/sizing you could likely be spending more than the difference in cost at some point trying to remove it, quite possibly damaging your new oil pump doing so if you end up changing that. You can't remove these 'damped' pulleys with three legged pullers you know, all you'd get off is the belt ring to a degree.

it's only info anyway, plenty of people use all sorts ;O)
 
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
Top