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Thanks. the first chart i didnt post because its not a great chart, probably me on and off the throttle looking for a gap to pull.
The charts look fine. Nice and safe. Your ignition advance is fairly conservative at the bottom end so that's probably why your torque is a bit lower than expected. In terms of the top end it looks like breathing may be the issue. As mentioned earlier a set of cams should see it hit around 300bhp or very close. It looks like they are skirting along under the boost cut. Out of curiosity, what happens to the peak boost pressure if you drop from 5th to 4th and floor it quickly? You you see an extra 1.5psi for around 12 seconds?

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For reference. This chart is from a very similar turbo set up using 99ron fuel, stock head with upgraded cams.


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Finally got around to reading the datalogs posted a couple days ago. My original thoughts were your turbo wasn't keeping up with engine demands. Datalogs proved that theory to be all wrong! And your timing appears to be very similar to mine, maybe a degree or two less (I have Manic's stage 4). As George1 suggests, a set of cams should help, but don't overlook your 2.5" exhaust pipe restriction. A 3" upgrade should be high on your priority list, 'specially if you go with a big Garrett.

Then a word of caution --- a big Garrett will be capable of 30+ PSI. Using 10.0:1 CR pistons and without a CSS, 30+PSI would be courting disaster! That's how I blew out the top of a cylinder wall. Work with your tuner to set an upper boost limit, during a big turbo install.
 

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Finally got around to reading the datalogs posted a couple days ago. My original thoughts were your turbo wasn't keeping up with engine demands. Datalogs proved that theory to be all wrong! And your timing appears to be very similar to mine, maybe a degree or two less (I have Manic's stage 4).
I think they're trying to stay under the boost cut rather than map it out which is why it skirts under the 22.5psi. The degree or two less on the ignition timing is where the torque has gone. I'm the same, I'm pushing slightly more advance and I'm not throwing in quite as much fuel but as I said, it's nice and safe so I can't see anything letting go with that map.



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Discussion Starter #85
The charts look fine. Nice and safe. Your ignition advance is fairly conservative at the bottom end so that's probably why your torque is a bit lower than expected. In terms of the top end it looks like breathing may be the issue. As mentioned earlier a set of cams should see it hit around 300bhp or very close. It looks like they are skirting along under the boost cut. Out of curiosity, what happens to the peak boost pressure if you drop from 5th to 4th and floor it quickly? You you see an extra 1.5psi for around 12 seconds?

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Hi mate thanks for the input, and glad you agree its pretty safe. What would you expect to see on the ignition advance then? I didnt hear back form 1320 yet but i think cams would be the next main purchase. Turbozentrum dont have the garrett in stock and will only re order once paid for which is on a 3 week delay so will probably do the cams first and run it a bout for a bit.

tbh ive not really looked, and i definitely dont have a data log on that. Perhaps i can log that tomorrow. What rolling pace are you thinking off to test? 60/70?
 

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Discussion Starter #86
For reference. This chart is from a very similar turbo set up using 99ron fuel, stock head with upgraded cams.


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Wow thats quite a big difference, the torque is huge at 326ftlb, thats 443nm. Seems a lot from just cams being the main difference. My car is also mapped on 99 V Power. But if thats the upside to cams, it just makes the case to install even greater.
 

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Discussion Starter #87
Finally got around to reading the datalogs posted a couple days ago. My original thoughts were your turbo wasn't keeping up with engine demands. Datalogs proved that theory to be all wrong! And your timing appears to be very similar to mine, maybe a degree or two less (I have Manic's stage 4). As George1 suggests, a set of cams should help, but don't overlook your 2.5" exhaust pipe restriction. A 3" upgrade should be high on your priority list, 'specially if you go with a big Garrett.

Then a word of caution --- a big Garrett will be capable of 30+ PSI. Using 10.0:1 CR pistons and without a CSS, 30+PSI would be courting disaster! That's how I blew out the top of a cylinder wall. Work with your tuner to set an upper boost limit, during a big turbo install.
Hi Walt thanks for the feedback. With the 3" downpipe, it might be a little down the line. If i go with cams and see how it runs, the next step would be to order the garrett and install the SAS manifold, at that point it will need to be custom and likely a different shape to what i have now so wouldnt want to pay for one and then need another but yes i agree thats up on the list of changes to be made.

I've spoken to Lorenzo @ RPM, and at the point of going to a garrett we will have another revision to the tune, check the boost levels (im guessing to keep it similar to 22/23psi) and see how it goes. Will probably need another tune revision for the cams too.
 

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Hi mate thanks for the input, and glad you agree its pretty safe. What would you expect to see on the ignition advance then? I didnt hear back form 1320 yet but i think cams would be the next main purchase. Turbozentrum dont have the garrett in stock and will only re order once paid for which is on a 3 week delay so will probably do the cams first and run it a bout for a bit.

tbh ive not really looked, and i definitely dont have a data log on that. Perhaps i can log that tomorrow. What rolling pace are you thinking off to test? 60/70?
You just want as much ignition advance as you can get without running into det. I would expect you could get another 2 or 3 degrees at the bottom end to lift the torque curve a bit but it's a trial and error thing so you'll have to play it by ear while all the time checking for det. You might want to trim out some fuel too but it will all take time to get right. The upper end looks ok in terms of advance, that's where your cams will come into their own.

If you try 60mph in 6th then drop to 4th and floor it. The only reason i was asking was to check if the overboost function was still active or if they've mapped it out and that's a good way of getting it to reliably activate.

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How are you recording boost produced by your Turbosystems?

I'm running a similar spec to you + cams but I'm peaking out at 17.4psi at the moment (trying to figure out where my other 5psi is going).
 

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Yes. Lorenzo at RPM suggests catcams (603) plus meth would be a wise next step and should help push it towards the 300bhp mark. Have already emailed 1320 to see what they would charge to install and setup.
No point getting ripped off. Drop Pug1Off a line🤹. I bought my catcams from them considerably cheaper than 1320. All because it’s the pug part number.
 
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˄THIS˄ Great service from them, was the cheapest Supertech oversize valves I could find on the web.
 

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Discussion Starter #92
How are you recording boost produced by your Turbosystems?

I'm running a similar spec to you + cams but I'm peaking out at 17.4psi at the moment (trying to figure out where my other 5psi is going).
Well visually on the ultraguage, but also now via dash command and data logging to see it's true boost pressures. Not always possible to view when driving and you're giving it full throttle.

Have you tried adjusting your wastegate actuator and moving it towards to turbo to increase boost pressure. Think 1 full thread count is equivalent to around 3/4psi? But don't quote me.. I had to to get my 22psi. As I understand it, hybrids can be quite fiddly getting reliable and sustainable boost pressures.
 

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Discussion Starter #93
No point getting ripped off. Drop Pug1Off a line🤹. I bought my catcams from them considerably cheaper than 1320. All because it’s the pug part number.
Is that just for the parts or does he fit too?

I was quoted approx £1800 for supply and fit of cams, plus installation of AEM watermeth kit.
 

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Discussion Starter #94
No point getting ripped off. Drop Pug1Off a line🤹. I bought my catcams from them considerably cheaper than 1320. All because it’s the pug part number.
Might be looking in the wrong area on his site but the only catcams I could find were in the RCZ section and they are the milder cam ending 601. Looking for the 603 cam.
 

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I looked a while back at these cams.

From memory 1320 were still cheaper than Pug1off and Kamracing. But worth a hunt around.

I would love to see the before and after on the cam upgrade to your hybrid set up.
Or are you looking to go straight to the new T25 manifold and GTX turbo at the same time?


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Discussion Starter #96
I looked a while back at these cams.

From memory 1320 were still cheaper than Pug1off and Kamracing. But worth a hunt around.

I would love to see the before and after on the cam upgrade to your hybrid set up.
Or are you looking to go straight to the new T25 manifold and GTX turbo at the same time?


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I think the overall plan is to get the tubi manifold and a gtx on it, but I'd like to have the cams fitted and some meth. I've purchased a direct meth port kit from Speedtech Motorsport in the US to spray the meth to each cylinder rather than a single spray nozel. Not sure if there is anyone in the UK with that setup? It's their own kit, adaptor plate etc plus an extra nozel to spray post intercooler to reduce intake temps. Will probably pair that with an AEM setup, though they recommend Snow Performance it's a tad more expensive for a stage two kit.

I'll run that for a bit and in the meantime hopefully earn a few quid and find somewhere to do the downpipe.
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Well visually on the ultraguage, but also now via dash command and data logging to see it's true boost pressures. Not always possible to view when driving and you're giving it full throttle.

Have you tried adjusting your wastegate actuator and moving it towards to turbo to increase boost pressure. Think 1 full thread count is equivalent to around 3/4psi? But don't quote me.. I had to to get my 22psi. As I understand it, hybrids can be quite fiddly getting reliable and sustainable boost pressures.
Thanks for that; I'll give it a go.
 

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Drop them a line as it wasn’t listed back then either. From memory he was a great guy to chat with but it was supply only. I paid under £650 I believe but this was oh... 5 years ago?
As for a meth kit, I bought mine through Bruce at Devilsown UK and had it fitted on site for peanuts.
It actually looked a simple enough job to install yourself as long as you’re happy to drill some holes.
 
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Just checked the Newman web site --- nothing for the N14, only base and 1st gen. How will these new cams compare to Cat Cams ~603 set, in lift and duration? How "soon" for availability?

Didn't look for Kent cams, same story?
it would seem the spec is nearer the 603 and 602 than 601, one set I think is similar to one of these Catcam profiles which is what I have here now, I need to measure something to confirm which version I got tbh and can get the data for them to share so will report back with that. The ones I have are on steel blanks and not intended for sale but I can get them in the chilled iron version which will be cheaper than Catcams.

the problem at the moment for me is I can't begin to say how a car would run with them, they're said to be reasonably aggressive, my engines are in bits plus I have no map or familiarity with maps on these as yet, so some information if required will be a while away. You guys are way ahead of me in messing with the actual mapping and turbo side etc.

they do actually have another profile which is also being sent now, these are apparently more aggressive again and similar to some Lohen tried which took some work to get running right, someone else tried and failed apparently which might give you some idea they aren't like the 601's haha. No idea what car Lohen tried these in, aware they have a 400hp+ demo so maybe in that or a race car who knows, I'll talk to someone else about that and try to let you know more. These are not in the public domain at all so there will be no info.

aware I'm not telling you a lot here, but can say the cams are imminent, blanks are in progress, pricing on both profiles will follow if people are interested, I appreciate people won't necessarily be up for running largely untested cams but it's important to let people know there are others available I'm sure you might agree.

working on the basis that the other Mini Newman cams are at least £60+ cheaper than others, this should give some indication that for the N14 they'll be ~£120+ cheaper than the Catcams if that helps.

If there is interest and there are a number of people wanting to experiment with this new option then I can probably do something for like 10 pairs to help get them out there and develop some feedback etc, or just wait ;O)
 
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